Ars Gratia Artis - Complete Battle Overhaul, v2.7.2 - Patch 7 ready (updated 15/11/13)

[Eagle114th]

Selea,

Thank you for your reply. I will try this different methods of charging into them. Instead of clicking on enemy from far away, I will simply have them walk toward enemy. When my army is near enemy, I will double click on them to have the doing full charging into enemy army.

[cmirezm]

Hi, this is my default battle mod since its release and i'm very pleased with the new version, i realliy loved the accurate uniform colors and the implementation on some reskin (particulary romans). Keep it going pal, glad to see that this mod its getting bigger over time

[Eagle114th]

Here is my results from testing this updated mods:

1) I LOVE the combat overhauls, it is very detailed and high quality of combat experiences in balanced ways!

2) Javelins/throwing spears/pilum = OMG?! HOLY S*#&?!?! I literally wiped my OWN army with my own peltasts behind my macedonian phalanx... One second they threw spears into back of my own army and killed almost ALL OF THEM in one shot!? And enemy army was shocked and laughed their ass off at me and went after my petlasts with their own army and won by defaults. I was so shocked by this so I think we should test more on these throwing weapons damages/AP to determine if they need more polishing with balances.

3) Oathsworn is too overpowered.. I tested 1 vs 1 using all different types of roman legionaries including Praetorians Guard, they all got massacred easiliy. I even tested royal cataphract (Parthian) and did full charge into Oathsworn. And then Oathsworn masscred all of them in much longer battle. Can anyone confirm and see if any of you got same results as I do?

4) I noticed that Parthian Royal Cataphract have ranged weapons, is it intended to have that? Because when I tried to do full charge, I noticed that they never lowered their lance to aim for enemy army when charging into them.

5) I noticed that my roman legionaries that had pilum never used pilum when attacking enemy army, how do I get them to throw pilum at enemy army?

6) I noticed lot of problems with charging... I tested different ground army, they will NOT charge into enemy army, even when I double clicked on them. I think I found major problem here. Both infantry and cavalry won't charge properly, especially throwing pilums (Roman Legionaries). Charging features for player side is not enabled so they could not charge unlike AI do. AI charge into me properly while I could not. How do I properly charge into enemy army?

[Zardoc]

3) Oathsworn is too overpowered

They always have been, this has nothing to do with the mod.

[Ismar]

They always have been, this has nothing to do with the mod.

i think you have not playd early version of this mod so try the old one instead

[Selea]

Little update:

I've just tested some changes in javelins and did a quick battle Praetorians vs. Oathsworns.

Everything is fine again. I will post the new little update later this morning when I have made some more tests.

Again I'm sorry for the inconvenience: I added that single line to Javelins thinking it would improve their damage but didn't test it properly and didn't notice that the field actually halven armour stat immediately then adds even a bonus (that's the way all artillery shots work, also this is something I have to tailor a little in the future). In short words Javelins were turned into miniature artillery instead than projectiles.

[Aethyr]

Yep, same issue, lost 5 units on the charge from Averni's slingers and oathsworn javs - somthing went wrong witht this.

Eagle: I always edit my copy of Ars Gratia Artis with Ahiga's FAW Javelins mod, makes them throw defensively instead of offensively, if you want details how to do this, PM me.

Edit: I had a look, i Believe it may be due to the penetration values on all the Javelins combined with what appears to be high damage AND armor piercing. I am going to remove the Penetration and test results, I shall report soon.

Edit2: Yep, By removing the penetration, my Units were not obliterated, nor theirs. I Like the penetration idea, HOWEVER, damage would require to be drastically lowered for it to work in a balanced manner. I might play with the values a bit myself, if i find a sweet spot, I will report back again with my own findings, Good job overall!

Edit3:

So I set all penetration to low, and halved all javelin damage rounding up. It is better, but still I find it a little off. I think in the long run having no penetration is probably the most balanced, and from there just a number tweak those numbers down for refinement.

I am not sure how historic it is for the Celts to be throwing such devastating javelins on the charge altogether to be honest, watching them mow down the front line of my legions seems to be more of the Roman forte, and even then, while there should be great casualties vs unarmored foes, i wish there was a way to just have a shield debuff vs armored foes.

Hopefully you find this helpful!

[Zardoc]

I would like to know if this mod removes Aspis Companions from Macedon's roster, seeing how they are listed on Epirus's unit list, but not Macedons.

[Hypaspist_Archon]

Can someone tell me or direct me to an explanation of the "alphabetic trick" for loading mods? Do I just change the file name to A_Radiousblablabla.pack?

[Ismar]

Can someone tell me or direct me to an explanation of the "alphabetic trick" for loading mods? Do I just change the file name to A_Radiousblablabla.pack?

hi u use mod manager i think so only thing i think you have to do is you make your mods all of them to MOD packs instead of a Movie pack and then load them up using Mod manager and by clicking fix button he will load only your mods from ROME 2 data files then you can rearrange whats to be loaded first and what last hope this helps

[Socktu]

Other than the above already listed, I admire your hard work and dedication. There is clear investment in this mod and it shows in the many manners of the game, rockin' the new update.


Just needs a little more polishing! Thanks, Selea.

[Master Necromancer]

Downloaded and will test extensively right away.

[Selea]

Downloaded and will test extensively right away.

Just be sure to use version 3.02 for testing because in the first release there was a bug with Javelins that destroyed all the balance of units (stupid me again for doing a late change at night without knowing properly what it did and not testing it; I turned Javelins in miniature artillery making all units with Javelins walking machine guns.... oh well).

[Selea]

Ok, I provided a little update.

Now Javelins are balanced again and only Greek and Roman melee infantry units carry them (as it is historically accurate). Barbarian factions have a strong charge already without needing anything else, the add of Javelins on the charge only unbalanced things.

Also resolved the issue with compatibility problems with external unit packs; they should now work flawlessly albeit the balance on them will be a bit odd. You can tell me what are the best unit packs out there so I can work out special compatible versions with this mod.

Again, excuse me for the late change on Javelins that I didn't test and that caused all the issues. I should know better than do a last minute change late at night and tired and without knowing properly what the change does and not testing it (I didn't test it because I was very tired and I thought it would have just improved a little AP, instead it actually bypasses armour stat).

[Ismar]

hi Selea

I have tried your mod from the beginning and its the best out there i want to thank you for that
but i have a issue with your mod not starting past first load screen the problem started one the version 3.0

Now on the first update i have managed to resolve the issue by deleting your file in your main db file main_units_tables and then it works
now on the second one 3.02 i have the same issue but i did not try to resolve it yet but i think it will work the same way but to the point
what happens when i remove specific file?? how much this file change your mod ??

Thanks again for your splendid work

[Selea]

hi Selea

I have tried your mod from the beginning and its the best out there i want to thank you for that
but i have a issue with your mod not starting past first load screen the problem started one the version 3.0

Now on the first update i have managed to resolve the issue by deleting your file in your main db file main_units_tables and then it works
now on the second one 3.02 i have the same issue but i did not try to resolve it yet but i think it will work the same way but to the point
what happens when i remove specific file?? how much this file change your mod ??

Thanks again for your splendid work

Really? Are you sure it's not a compatibility issue with some other mod? Are you using patch 4 beta?

Anyway the main_units table just changes the army caps, it is nothing substantial for what it concerns the battle dynamics, it is just that without it you will use the vanilla army caps.

[Selea]

@Ismar:

Here, delete the table main_units in the mod and download this one:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/a2...cap_patch3.zip

It will work with patch 3 in this way.

EDIT:

In future versions I will add in the mod a main_units patch 3 table so you (and other users still on patch 3) only have to delete the existent (that works only with patch 4) and rename the patch 3 table (it's easier to do than to explain it).

[Selea]

@master necromancer:

I tweaked elephants, now they are very strong.

As for camels, looking better, there are not many powerful units in the game, they are mostly archers or light infantry so there's no point on making them stronger.

For what it concerns Cataphracts, I tested them while I was testing Elephants and they seems to me if anything they are too powerful now (and in fact I reduced their power slightly); which difficulty were you testing with? Because for testing purposes in custom battles you should always use normal difficulty because higher then that the AI "cheats" (i.e. gives to units a lot of bonuses to stats to artificially increase the challenge), so if you tested on very hard or above units may seem weaker than in reality they are.

Anyway, I will now release the update for elephants.

[Master Necromancer]

Tested 3.02:

Great things:

1. Civilised Units hold formation and barbarian ones just try to encircle the enemy, I almost squeaked like a small girl.

2. Every unit has it's roll and you have to know it, this is what I always wanted.

3. The battles are a joy to watch.

4. Every battle is now a tactical challenge, I mean as far as a challenged as it can be with the AI as it is, but you can not just charge forward in a moshpit and hope to win or survive, even in small battles of 3 or 4 units.

5. Every faction is different and every unit is different, now there is a difference between different javelin units not just in a visual sense but in a in depth sense because Selea has dedicated equal time and love to each unit individually and it is a true joy to play.

Bugs I noticed:

1. African Elephants (both variations) are too weak, 2 units of normal elephants had problems with 2 units of velites.

2. Slingers are to accurate, they hit almost 80% of the time, this should be reduced.

3. This is a strange one, it may not be a bug but if it is not please explain to me, I was playing as Parthia vs Suebi, I had 2 Shock cavalry units (Royal Cataphracts), 1 melee camel and 1 melee cavalry the most powerful one. They had 1 Master swordsmen and 3 Berserkers. I just charged them once and left them to duke it out. I won but just barely, almost all camels died 5 left routed, one of the Royal Cataphracts was exterminated and I was left with 20% of my melee cavalry and 60% of my second Royal Cataphracts unit. Is that how it should be or?

ALL IN ALL BEST BAI MOD EVER!!!

P.S. As for your question about unit pack tweaking, there will be a LOT of varied answers my suggestion is for you to add your optional unit pack that will compliment this mod, like a sword unit for sparta, more ambush units for Iceni etc... What ever you decide.

[Selea]

Bugs I noticed:

1. African Elephants (both variations) are too weak, 2 units of normal elephants had problems with 2 units of velites.

2. Slingers are to accurate, they hit almost 80% of the time, this should be reduced.

3. This is a strange one, it may not be a bug but if it is not please explain to me, I was playing as Parthia vs Suebi, I had 2 Shock cavalry units (Royal Cataphracts), 1 melee camel and 1 melee cavalry the most powerful one. They had 1 Master swordsmen and 3 Berserkers. I just charged them once and left them to duke it out. I won but just barely, almost all camels died 5 left routed, one of the Royal Cataphracts was exterminated and I was left with 20% of my melee cavalry and 60% of my second Royal Cataphracts unit. Is that how it should be or?

First of all thank you very much for your testing and your kind words.

1. Elephants: yes, I noticed, they are a little weak now. At beginning I made them too strong so I must have nerfed them too much. I already started tweaking them.

2. Also this I know. It is in my todo list but I first focused on more unique factions and units, I will surely balance the accuracy on slingers on next update.

3. I have also to tweak Camels because as of now (as in vanilla) they are extremely weak. This has left you with the 2 Cataphracts against the Berskerkers and Master Swordsmen and it is a miracle you even won. Cataphracts are extremely powerful but in prolonged melee against very high attack units they can have some problems especially in the beginning of the fight when Barbarians are immensely strong. The fact that they are even half the size doesn't help either. But all in all Cataphracts are balanced (I don't expect them to win 1 vs 1 against special elite units of Barbarians if you leave them be in melee, or if they win they do so just barely) the real problem are the camel units that are to be tweaked strongly.

Again thank you for your feedback, as always you nailed down the balance problems the mod has at this point. It's nothing game breaking but I want to aim for the best experience possible so these are issues that must be corrected.