Ars Gratia Artis - Complete Battle Overhaul, v2.7.2 - Patch 7 ready (updated 15/11/13)

[NiKuTa]

Duble post sry

[NiKuTa]

LoL.
I'm saying and thinking only about stats in game not about mashes!! I know what is mashes and what is stats value in game. I'm not so stupid.
BTW. I send you PM about stats, armours, shield for Roman units. I sow a difference after my PM in armours in roman units, but still was wrong.

But don't worry i will not disturb in your work.

[Selea]

LoL.
I'm saying and thinking only about stats in game not about mashes!! I know what is mashes and what is stats value in game. I'm not so stupid.

Then tell me please what is wrong if I give an archer a shield bonus (and the bonus is tied to faction).

Does the archer really have the shield?

No. So why do you insist "you gave the shield when in RL it doesn't have it". It has NOT it. It doesn't change nothing in the game, it is just a stat thing.

Also in the Radious mod or in vanilla there are many "wrong" stat values made for balance. Things that doesn't match the meshes. It's impossible to have balance following the meshes to the full because some units will be too weak/too strong.

Take for example War Dogs in both Radious and Vanilla. They have a shield set in the tables. Have you ever seen a dog with a shield? Does the dog have a shield in the "reality" of the game? No isn't it? CA gave the shield to War Dogs just to improve their stats. It is nothing more but a set bonus, it is not a true shield. It is not "wrong" to give them the shield because it is not a shield, at all.

BTW. I send you PM about stats, armours, shield for Roman units. I sow a difference after my PM in armours in roman units, but still was wrong.

Thanks. If you send me the list you will do me a great favor so I will change the equipment appropriately (and in this case it will do a difference).

But don't worry i will not disturb in your work.

You aren't "disturbing" me. It is just that you have now fixated with this thing that things in the tables don't coincide with "reality" and you think that for this the mod is wrong. In reality there are many parameters that you cannot simulate in an engine and/or game that is done by binary numbers. The only way to simulate those parameters is via stats and so the tables give those stats.

They are things done behind the scene, to improve on the balance. The visual aspect and the "reality" of what users see is different and that's the important part for what it concerns if a thing is true to reality or not. It doesn't matter anything if I give in the table a round shield or an hoplite one. It doesn't change nothing apart the stats. The different shields in the tables are only values, nothing more. You can name a shield "Aspis" as you can name it "Pincopallino", it will change nothing. If the two have the same stats they are the same shields because nor one nor the other is the true Aspis shield, they both are just a set of values.

So if I give the shield named "Pincopallino" to a Greek unit it doesn't mean that I gave him the "wrong" shield. It is not wrong because it is just a value, nothing more.

[Barkhorn1x]

Selea:

Great mod. Love the attention to detail. Question; Does the AI use their abilities effectively to fully exploit your tools?

Thanks.

[Selea]

Selea:

Great mod. Love the attention to detail. Question; Does the AI use their abilities effectively to fully exploit your tools?

Thanks.

I try to always give the BAI abilities it can use, elsewhere I try to do other things.

In fact I wanted to give an ability that could give the choice to throw Pilum/Javelins when the user would want but since the AI will not use it I will probably not add it.

I'm yet undecided because it works wonderfully for the user, but if the AI cannot use Javelins it's a problem. Already it is weak, if you remove from it even the few options it has it becomes hopeless.

[le_fred]

I just wanted to thank you for this mod.

I hope this mod will get a proper section in the hosted modification part of the forum.
it deserves it very much.

Big big thanks for the great work and keep this mod alive !!

[Barkhorn1x]

I try to always give the BAI abilities it can use, elsewhere I try to do other things.

In fact I wanted to give an ability that could give the choice to throw Pilum/Javelins when the user would want but since the AI will not use it I will probably not add it.

I'm yet undecided because it works wonderfully for the user, but if the AI cannot use Javelins it's a problem. Already it is weak, if you remove from it even the few options it has it becomes hopeless.

Understood and I know you are a bit hamstrung by hard coded CA decisions that do not work very well.

[Sir_Pee_Alot]

I would love to see that fire-at-will back but if its more problems then fun. then maybe not, en the AI maybe not use it but so what!! the AI got more problems and we need more fun

[NiKuTa]

This is my PM sanded few day ago to you:

Changes in projectiles_tables

pilum_normal: DMG - 16, AP - 16
pilum_marian: DMG - 18, AP - 18
pilum_imperial: DMG - 20, AP - 20

Changes in unit_armour_types_tables

nm_segmentata   50   1    0    segmentata
nh_segmentata    55    1    0    segmentata
vh_segmentata    60    1    0    segmentata

but I don't change nm_segmentata row jast add new armour

lh_segmentata    50    1    0    segmentata

Changes in melee_weapons_tables

rome_cav_gladius_marian: bonusv_infantry - 14, DMG - 18, AP - 12
rome_cav_gladius_imperial: bonusv_infantry - 15, DMG - 16, AP - 14
...
rome_gladius_marian: DMG - 18, AP - 12
rome_gladius_imperial: DMG - 16, AP - 14

Changes in unit_shield_types_tables

rom_scutum_marian: DEF - 44 , ARM - 48 ,sound - wood, unknown - 60
rom_scutum_imperial: DEF - 42 , ARM - 50 ,sound - wood, unknown - 70

All roman shield except hoplite should have wood sound.

Changes in land_units

Rom_Armour_Legionaries: ARMOUR - vh_segmentata , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius_imperial, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum_imperial, SHIELD - rom_scutum_imperial
Rom_Eagle_Cohort: ARMOUR - nh_segmentata , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius_elite, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum_imperial, SHIELD - rom_scutum_imperial
Rom_Equites: ARMOUR - nm_strong
Rom_Evocati_Cohort: ARMOUR - nh_segmentata , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius_imperial, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum_imperial, SHIELD - rom_scutum_imperial
Rom_First_Cohort: ARMOUR - spc_arm_hide , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius_marian, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum_marian, SHIELD - rom_scutum_marian
Rom_General: ARMOUR - spc_arm_hide
Rom_Hastati: ARMOUR - nl_strong , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum, SHIELD - rom_scutum
Rom_Legatus: ARMOUR - lh_segmentata
Rom_Legionaries: ARMOUR - nh_strong , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius_elite, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum_marian, SHIELD - rom_scutum_marian
Rom_Legionary_Cav: ARMOUR - lh_segmentata
Rom_Legionary_Cohort: ARMOUR - lh_segmentata , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius_imperial, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum_imperial, SHIELD - rom_scutum_imperial
Rom_Praetorian_Cav: ARMOUR - lh_segmentata
Rom_Praetorian_Guard: ARMOUR - nh_segmentata , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius_elite, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum_imperial, SHIELD - rom_scutum_imperial
Rom_Praetorians: ARMOUR - spc_arm_hide , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius_elite, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum_marian, SHIELD - rom_scutum_marian
Rom_Principes: ARMOUR - nh_strong , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum, SHIELD - rom_scutum
Rom_Triarii: ARMOUR - vh_strong , SHIELD - rom_scutum_spear
Rom_Vet_Legionaries: ARMOUR - spc_arm_hide , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius_marian, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum_marian, SHIELD - rom_scutum_marian

In red is what should be changed.

This was my orginal message to you. But now i will give you a new version of that, because you have some new changes.

Changes in projectiles_tables

pilum_normal: DMG - 20, AP - 20, PEN - medium
pilum_marian: DMG - 20, AP - 20, PEN - high
pilum_imperial: DMG - 20, AP - 20, PEN - very_high

Changes in unit_armour_types_tables

nm_segmentata   50   1    0    segmentata
nh_segmentata    55    1    0    segmentata
vh_segmentata    60    1    0    segmentata

but I don't change nm_segmentata row jast add new armour

lh_segmentata    50    1    0    segmentata

Changes in melee_weapons_tables

rome_cav_gladius_marian: bonusv_infantry - 16, DMG - 18, AP - 7
rome_cav_gladius_imperial: bonusv_infantry - 17, DMG - 8, AP - 12
...
rome_gladius_marian: DMG - 18, AP - 7
rome_gladius_imperial: DMG - 8, AP - 12

Changes in unit_shield_types_tables

rom_scutum_marian: DEF - 44 , ARM - 48 ,sound - wood, unknown - 60
rom_scutum_imperial: DEF - 42 , ARM - 50 ,sound - wood, unknown - 70

Changes in land_units

Rom_Armour_Legionaries: ARMOUR - vh_segmentata , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius_imperial, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum_imperial, SHIELD - rom_scutum_imperial
Rom_Eagle_Cohort: ARMOUR - nh_segmentata , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius_elite, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum_imperial, SHIELD - rom_scutum_imperial
Rom_Equites: ARMOUR - nm_strong
Rom_Evocati_Cohort: ARMOUR - nh_segmentata , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius_imperial, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum_imperial, SHIELD - rom_scutum_imperial
Rom_First_Cohort: ARMOUR - spc_arm_hide , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius_marian, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum_marian, SHIELD - rom_scutum_marian
Rom_General: ARMOUR - spc_arm_hide
Rom_Hastati: ARMOUR - nl_strong , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum, SHIELD - rom_scutum
Rom_Legatus: ARMOUR - lh_segmentata
Rom_Legionaries: ARMOUR - nh_strong , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius_elite, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum_marian, SHIELD - rom_scutum_marian
Rom_Legionary_Cav: ARMOUR - lh_segmentata
Rom_Legionary_Cohort: ARMOUR - lh_segmentata , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius_imperial, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum_imperial, SHIELD - rom_scutum_imperial
Rom_Praetorian_Cav: ARMOUR - lh_segmentata
Rom_Praetorian_Guard: ARMOUR - nh_segmentata , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius_elite, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum_imperial, SHIELD - rom_scutum_imperial
Rom_Praetorians: ARMOUR - spc_arm_hide , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius_elite, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum_marian, SHIELD - rom_scutum_marian
Rom_Principes: ARMOUR - nh_strong , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum, SHIELD - rom_scutum
Rom_Triarii: ARMOUR - vh_strong , SHIELD - rom_scutum_spear
Rom_Vet_Legionaries: ARMOUR - spc_arm_hide , MELEEWEAPON - rome_gladius_marian, MISSILEWAPON - rome_pilum_marian, SHIELD - rom_scutum_marian

In red colour this what should be changed,
In blue colour this what should be changes and is new entry in mod.

New suggestion about armour piercing.
In all Rome 2 mods nobody don't correct armour piercing ability for axes and spears. That what I know and what I've read in books, and on some historical forums and etc.. sword have the worst AP ability. Spear should be better then sword, but axe should be much more better than sword.

[Selea]

Ok, thank, this is useful.

I didn't receive the message or I would have understood better what you meant.

Sorry if I did sound rude but I didn't hear your from a lot of time, explained you many things and then it seemed as if you didn't read anything about what I wrote last time.

Now I understand what you meant.

As for Spears/Swords AP ability: spears I already gave more AP than swords (that have lowest AP, apart for Gladius). Axes is true, I must give them much more AP but always forgot because I had more urgent matters to look at.

Thanks again.

[Selea]

I am thinking something:

Why not have both?
Why not have both the possibility of using Pilum/Javelin on a charge and also from an ability? In this way the BAI can use it and also the user has more choice.

It can work because I can make the ability stop to function when ammo is depleted and also when you are in combat. Also the normal reload time of Javelin/Pilum is there, it's not that you can use the charge then fire with the ability immediately. It would just give the user much more options.

What do you think?

[Barkhorn1x]

I am thinking something:

Why not have both?
Why not have both the possibility of using Pilum/Javelin on a charge and also from an ability? In this way the BAI can use it and also the user has more choice.

It can work because I can make the ability stop to function when ammo is depleted and also when you are in combat. Also the normal reload time of Javelin/Pilum is there, it's not that you can use the charge then fire with the ability immediately. It would just give the user much more options.

What do you think?

Love it!!

[Sir_Pee_Alot]

I am thinking something:

Why not have both?
Why not have both the possibility of using Pilum/Javelin on a charge and also from an ability? In this way the BAI can use it and also the user has more choice.

It can work because I can make the ability stop to function when ammo is depleted and also when you are in combat. Also the normal reload time of Javelin/Pilum is there, it's not that you can use the charge then fire with the ability immediately. It would just give the user much more options.

What do you think?

[Iperione]

I am thinking something:

Why not have both?
Why not have both the possibility of using Pilum/Javelin on a charge and also from an ability? In this way the BAI can use it and also the user has more choice.

It can work because I can make the ability stop to function when ammo is depleted and also when you are in combat. Also the normal reload time of Javelin/Pilum is there, it's not that you can use the charge then fire with the ability immediately. It would just give the user much more options.

What do you think?

I think it's a great idea!

[jamiedp88]

If you need the animation for archers to use their shields in close combat eg. Cretan Archers, I have the table skeletons etc I can send to u if needed.

[Selea]

If you need the animation for archers to use their shields in close combat eg. Cretan Archers, I have the table skeletons etc I can send to u if needed.

Ok, thanks.

[kanzy]

That is a great Idea Selea.

[Cochus1]

Hi guys!

I would like to know which radious mods are compatible with this great mod. BTW, i would like to know if the load order works with the CA manager

Thank u!

[jamiedp88]

Hi guys!

I would like to know which radious mods are compatible with this great mod. BTW, i would like to know if the load order works with the CA manager

Thank u!

Radious AI, Radious Campaign works but I recomend removing the main_units table, and Radious Economy and Research works. The unit packs also work but are unbalanced.

I have asked permission, because I'm nice, to include his mods in an All in One that I'm working on specifically for AGA but no answer, I guess my rep is not high enough.

[Durador]

Hi guys!

I would like to know which radious mods are compatible with this great mod. BTW, i would like to know if the load order works with the CA manager

Thank u!

I use with AGA: Radious campaign, Economy and AI mods.
Also i use: city sack and liberation for all factions mod by Dresden. Traits Talents and toadies by Hellbent's. Unit Icons project (v.0.23) by BullGod. Transparent Black UI by Gerula666. And i also use GEM (Graphic Enhancement Mod) by luciferhawk. All those mods work fine together.