Ars Gratia Artis - Complete Battle Overhaul, v2.7.2 - Patch 7 ready (updated 15/11/13)

[Master Necromancer]

TO ALL USERS:

I need help on knowing what are the best re-texture mods out there because I am too busy working on the gameplay changes and I cannot look through 20 pages to find which are the best.

If you could help me on knowing what are the best reskins to implement I would be grateful.

Thanks in advance.

Best overall unit color mod:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?621520

In this one Spartans look the best:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?620107

This is the best Celtic one but it hasn't been updated for ages and needs an update to work properly with patch 4:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?619227

For Rome only this one, makes shields look marvelous (Open images in another tab to see them):

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?621863

For Carthage, Egypt and Eastern the combination of these two which already work together:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?619956

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?621283

Sadly no good ones for Suebi out there.

If you could get permissions from all of them and compile them and combine in your mod that would be marvellous.

[Kymmuriel]

For non rome factions, i think the bestskin pack above is Legionaires Armies Mod (Epirus Released!) UPD-08.10.2013 , KLA is making his move but yet to be, you should definitly look for little legionnaire skinpack

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...UPD-08-10-2013

For Hellenic i use either osgreek or legionnaire but i do prefer legionnaire those ultimate times.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-V7-(09-10-13)

For Celtics KLA + Laigle are must have,

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ts!&highlight=

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?619227

As for Carthage i think you already putted the Gustave shield, and yes the mods mentionned above my previous post are those

Dacian+thracian

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-quot-version)

And arete ton xenon

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...thage-Overhaul

[Selea]

@Big_El_Nobody:

I just tested Royal Spartans vs. Galatian Royal Guard and if something Royal Spartans are a little too powerful (but maybe it's appropriate given the limited number of troops at disposal of Sparta) so I sincerely don't know what you are talking about. Royal Spartans won after a long struggle when at first they were losing then they won handily (and as I said maybe even too handily, I will have to tone down a little at last the Heroes or Sparta will be too powerful even with the limited troops; Sparta was in decadence in this period so it's fine they have some of the best troops but they should be really limited).

@Kymmuriel:

Thank you very much for your suggestion on unit packs to add compatibility with (maybe I can even add them inside the mod if they are good, it can be).

As for Splenyi mod, I've seen it and it is good for the historical names and such but as for battle dynamics it is still far away from this one (and I don't say it to boast, it is just that it changes only some selected parameters as many other battle mods around; what it has more is a balance of stats for units but that does little if you don't change the mechanics - as armor sets, etc. - as I discovered when I was early working myself on those things). However the addition of historical names is an interesting one and surely when I will have done the naval battle changes I will start adding it myself.

[Socktu]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?619227

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...oad-Link/page3

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-for-Parthians

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...f-Spartan-army

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ISTIC-SKINPACK

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...lry-shields-!)

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...OOT-COMPANIONS

These are my personal favorites selected very particularly by myself and love them with a passion. They're must haves in my opinion.

As for a Rome retexture I wouldn't know. I rarely play them or use them, so it would lead to the conclusion I wouldn't need any modification for them.

[Socktu]

Seems we have the same tastes, Necro.

Anyway, like Master Necromancer said compiling them (with prior permission of course) into one with your mod and making compatibility, etc would be lovely.

I'm sure the community and the other great modders will be more than humble and allow you to add most of what tickles your eyes to the mod.

[Selea]

Seems we have the same tastes, Necro.

Anyway, like Master Necromancer said compiling them (with prior permission of course) into one with your mod and making compatibility, etc would be lovely.

I'm sure the community and the other great modders will be more than humble and allow you to add most of what tickles your eyes to the mod.

Sadly it's not so. I don't know why but many of these reskinner modders don't want their work put in overhaul and compilations.

I already asked about two third of those mod authors that you and other listed and they never want to grant permission. Sometimes I have the impulse of just not care at all and simply put the reskins anyway because, frankly, it doesn't make any sense. When you provide credits and you even put external links to the mods what point there is on not granting users to put the textures in their overhauls? It actually even provides publicity to those mods.

As for the fact that people can simply download and use them along this mod, it is much simpler for a normal user to just download a complete battle overhaul that has also the best visual alteration instead than download the overhaul then search all the reskins around. In this way you have a complete package without needing to do anything else.

I frankly don't understand at all this behavior. It is not that we are making programs that are worth money, and we are a community and should share our work with others.

[Master Necromancer]

Sadly it's not so. I don't know why but many of these reskinner modders don't want their work put in overhaul and compilations.

I already asked about two third of those mod authors that you and other listed and they never want to grant permission. Sometimes I have the impulse of just not care at all and simply put the reskins anyway because, frankly, it doesn't make any sense. When you provide credits and you even put external links to the mods what point there is on not granting users to put the textures in their overhauls? It actually even provides publicity to those mods.

As for the fact that people can simply download and use them along this mod, it is much simpler for a normal user to just download a complete battle overhaul that has also the best visual alteration instead than download the overhaul then search all the reskins around. In this way you have a complete package without needing to do anything else.

I frankly don't understand at all this behavior. It is not that we are making programs that are worth money, and we are a community and should share our work with others.

Really bums me out also. Makes no sense.

Sadly you can not put them in without permission, if you do they will report you to the moderators and you will be forced to exclude them or they will delete your mod. It has happened before...

It just baffles me how small minded some people can be, all moders work to make this game a wonderful experience but when it comes to sharing their work they turn to:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Selea]

Really bums me out also. Makes no sense.

Sadly you can not put them in without permission, if you do they will report you to the moderators and you will be forced to exclude them or they will delete your mod. It has happened before...

Also this is an idiocy. You shouldn't even need permission to simply put a part of a mod that has nothing to do with your core changes if you provide (rightly so) credits; it can be polite to do (and I always did) but there's no way a site moderators in other sites will ask you to remove the content or even worse delete your mod if you provide credits and links to other work that's not tied to what your mod does.

No other site (as Nexus) does that, because it doesn't make any sense and it has no logic at all. If I provide the credits to your work and the links to it, why I must be forced to delete an alteration (or even worse have my mod deleted for it) that has nothing to do with what my mod does and it is just an add-on if I provide the deserved credits for the work done?

The thing is different if you use parts of other another mod that does the same exact thing as you do without permission because that's just theft, but if the work is just an external addition to the mod you aren't stealing it for your benefit, you just do it for the good of the users, and if you provide credits to other works that's all you should need.

[Master Necromancer]

Also this is an idiocy. You shouldn't even need permission to simply put a part of a mod that has nothing to do with your core changes if you provide (rightly so) credits; it can be polite to do (and I always did) but there's no way a site moderators in other sites will ask you to remove the content or even worse delete your mod if you provide credits and links to other work that's not tied to what your mod does.

No other site (as Nexus) does that, because it doesn't make any sense and it has no logic at all. If I provide the credits to your work and the links to it, why I must be forced to delete an alteration (or even worse have my mod deleted for it) that has nothing to do with what my mod does and it is just an add-on if I provide the deserved credits for the work done?

The thing is different if you use parts of other another mod that does the same exact thing as you do without permission because that's just theft, but if the work is just an external addition to the mod you aren't stealing it for your benefit, you just do it for the good of the users, and if you provide credits to other works that's all you should need.

Skyeim modders are a lot friendlier, you do have to ask for permission (it's just manners and common curtsey) but 90% of them will say yes.

[McCarronXLD]

As far as recolors go I am a firm supporter of Demokritos' Alternative Colours mod. He had a huge impact on Shogun 2 with his Alternative Colours mod there and it seems his quality is continuing. Absolutely necessary in my opinion. I would keep an eye on his mod (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...urs-For-Rome-2) and update accordingly. This would take the place of the current Natural Dyes variation in your mod. As far as reskins go I am of the opinion that such things are best left to the individual's personal taste and can pick it up on their own, otherwise there would be too many mod conflicts and would create a lot of stress for yourself keeping all those things updated. Staying as a Battle Overhaul only would probably be the best thing (save for the aforementioned color mod as it would affect whatever unit packs you add), in my opinion. Now for Unit Packs I am of the opinion that less is more and something should only be added if it has a meaningful presence in the game and in history. Adding a bunch of fluff to the roster just creates more units to sift through. That said, this man does an amazing job at introducing new units with a historical flavor and meaningful presence. Hoping he does more factions than just Athens. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...2-(REQ-Patch-4)

[Kymmuriel]

As far as recolors go I am a firm supporter of Demokritos' Alternative Colours mod. He had a huge impact on Shogun 2 with his Alternative Colours mod there and it seems his quality is continuing. Absolutely necessary in my opinion. I would keep an eye on his mod (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...urs-For-Rome-2) and update accordingly. This would take the place of the current Natural Dyes variation in your mod. As far as reskins go I am of the opinion that such things are best left to the individual's personal taste and can pick it up on their own, otherwise there would be too many mod conflicts and would create a lot of stress for yourself keeping all those things updated. Staying as a Battle Overhaul only would probably be the best thing (save for the aforementioned color mod as it would affect whatever unit packs you add), in my opinion. Now for Unit Packs I am of the opinion that less is more and something should only be added if it has a meaningful presence in the game and in history. Adding a bunch of fluff to the roster just creates more units to sift through. That said, this man does an amazing job at introducing new units with a historical flavor and meaningful presence. Hoping he does more factions than just Athens. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...2-(REQ-Patch-4)

Wow nice one m8, those are realyl nice skinpack ive had not time to look on, and yay, Demokritos' Alternative Colours mod, am really looking forward for it, it seems hes going to have realistic rome rebuplican army, and as a Roma Surrectum player , i cant wait i jsut cant play rome with those all redish units


Oh and on another note here is the iberian re skin mod socktu was speaking of, a must have in a carthage campaign too !!

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ck(10-10-2013)

Selea, let me tell you ure a boss, keep going on m8!

[Socktu]

Oh to add onto that, you should definitely make compatibility with the Iberian Skin pack and Dacian/thracian skinpack that gives respective factions new units/clothing and all sorts of stuff, really wonderful.

To see that in this mod fully compatible and configured to Ars Gratia's unique settings it'll sure as hell make a Macedonia campaign fun and a Carthage one.

[Aethyr]

Nice update, but my Legions do not throw in defense NOR offense, am I doing somthing wrong?

Edit:
Yeahhhhh, so i didn't see i needed to use mod manager

[Stefankollers]

Just been playing your superb mod, at last someone has got the unit speeds to a reasonable pace. I also liked the idea of the Romans advancing and then throwing Pilums at the enemy army "me" and then advancing towards the battle line.
Admittedly I have only played a couple of battles so far, but I like the way things are shaping up.

It would be great if you could intergrate other mods into this mod. Also would it be possible to to have a look at unit sizes ? Possibly giving people the choice of Vanilla sizes, or 1.5 or x2, I would change them myself. but I know this mod is likely to be updated in the future.

Thanks again for all your time and effort bringing this superb mod together. As always it's down to people like you to do what CA should have done in the first place.

[Selea]

@Kymmuriel, Master Necromancer and Soctu:

Wow people, you are awesome!

Those are a lot of beautiful reskins to be sure. I really hope I can add them to the mod (if the authors permit it) because it will definitely improve the look of the mod 200% and this would become the best and most complete battle overhaul.

It seems I have work to do. I want to first see if I can add the reskins then I will start adding the unit packs. But first of all I have to install again the damn game because after a crash it stopped working altogether, and I was in a middle of some tweaking. Oh well...

@Stefankollers:

Increased unit sizes are great on paper but they really cause A LOT of problems. First of all naval battles become completely broken (even more than they already are with the changes in cohesion, because there's a bug in the radius that CA doesn't seem to care fixed and it's all the issue that causes the mass bobbling in vanilla) and then the performance drops consistently and this surely ins't already a well optimized game to begin with.

Personally I think they are many more drawbacks than positives on increasing unit sizes, even to x1.5.

[Aethyr]

Really really loving the mod Selea. Just did a battle vs Macedon, got utterly crushed because I did not deal with the foot companions appropriately, replayed with better tactics and won handedly, those pikes are devastating!

[Selea]

Really really loving the mod Selea. Just did a battle vs Macedon, got utterly crushed because I did not deal with the foot companions appropriately, replayed with better tactics and won handedly, those pikes are devastating!

Yes, they are, however pikemen outside of a phalanx are very weak, and they have the worst speed of all units (especially when in a phalanx) so the thing balances out. They are incredibly strong in a phalanx from the front, yet extremely weak outside of it and can be encircled easily.

It is all about proper tactics Every unit must do its work now, as in don't leave your pikemen alone for flanking.

Sadly the BAI will never be able to perform good tactics as it should but with these changes in MP if two users adopt them they would have a lot of fun.

[Guers695]

Hi Selea,
I can't get your mod to work for some reason. I have it at the top of the load order, no other mods aside from gustavs shield mod and klas skin packs. But, it doesn't seem to work. Hoplites still charge and break formation, etc. Any ideas?

[Selea]

Hi Selea,
I can't get your mod to work for some reason. I have it at the top of the load order, no other mods aside from gustavs shield mod and klas skin packs. But, it doesn't seem to work. Hoplites still charge and break formation, etc. Any ideas?

The problem with the Phalanx formation no modder can really resolve (and in fact there are even some modder that claim to have done that but it's simply a lie because it's impossible to fix just by altering the animation; it is the behavior that's broken). It is an internal hard-coded issue that only CA can repair.

I have just improved by much cohesion of units and rendered every faction unique in the way they behave but Phalanxes are still broken in behavior and there's nothing possibly I can do about it (and believe me, I would love to be able to do it as I would love to do many other things as adding a static damage reduction dependent on the armour stat).

In any case a trick to use them effectively is to NOT ATTACK or else the formation will break; simply walk through the enemy (as in clicking - not double click, you must walk not run - on a spot past the unit you want to engage with a Phalanx) and the Phalanx will hold. There will still be many problems (as in if the line is too ample some men will just go through while other will hold behind fighting instead of all the unit remaining on the line) but it's better than nothing (the best way is to have a line of the exact same depth of the unit you want to engage and use the above mentioned "walk through", in that way the Phalanx works flawlessly).

I really hope myself that CA will do something about the Phalanx formation. It is already the 4th patch and this huge issue has not been resolved even if many users are screaming for it left and right. It can be that it's a thing that's difficult to fix but frankly I cannot understand why CA is putting time to, for example, put more range to torches that bring down gates instead of working hard on fixing these game breaking problems.

P.S: Apart this, if you want to be sure the mod is properly working just go on a custom battle and select a Royal Cataphract unit from Parthia. Watch the armour stat: if it is 120 then the mod is installed correctly, if it is not then it means you did something wrong in the installation process.

[Guers695]

Thanks Selea! I really appreciate the time. I guess I'll try a Subei campaign until they fix this phalanx issue, its totally rediculous. Thanks for the mod!!!