Not very realistic to me

[Darkcrusader8]

First of all I want to say that I really like this mod and I am not saying just to say it I am having the same fun with RS2 that I have playing DM Napoleon or DM Shogun 2 despite they are much more recent games and so far the mod was pretty stable (however I have a very powerful PC)

anyway I think that there are somethings that are not realistic at all the fights are too long and everytime I am fighting against heavy infantry they fight, all the time almost to the last men and they never broke (or go broken but fight to the death) untill there are 10 or less men and even if they are completely surrounded.

the other thing is that archers and slingers are 100% useless, unless they are shooting at the back or if the enemies are running, if an enemy of good spearman or heavy infantry stands still it is impossible to do any damage at all

in one siege battle I tried to attack some oplites with 3 spartan archers, one unit of slingers and 2 missle cavalrly (that throw spears) once all the 5 units finished their ammo guess how many men I had killed????0

now I would have considered that realistic if I were using some peasants to shoot at some gothic knights who have full plate armor made of steel but this is not the case

we are not in late medieval times

that unit of oplit was not even in large formation

that means that legionaris will be invincible at the front (since I presume they have much better armor)
and the testudo formation is gonna be pretty useless, damn the enemy did not need even to use large formation!

and I was playing h/h not even vh and my general had 10 stars and I was fighting a simple captain


will the archers become more leathal with the fast battle submod? And how can I download it? The link is not working I tried many times from 2 different pc

thanks

[Smiling Hetairoi]

RSII was made for the medium difficulty. Try a new campaign on medium. Ranged weaponry does not seem to have been particularly effective in ancient times.

[meerkatology]

hard battles give +4 atttack , defense, and morale to enemy units, it does not affect archer dmg as it bypasses armor.

i do agree that its a bit unrealistic that heavy infantry is invincible to arrow fire from the front, i think a small # of them should still die =\

testudo isn't useless, when you are being shot at from multiple sides , it is useful.

archers are very very cheap compared to heavy infantry tho.

[Darkcrusader8]

mmm that it not a solution I am already winning sometimes when I am very outnumbered, medium difficult would be too easy for me and I do not think it would change that much

Ranged weaponry does not seem to have been particularly effective in ancient times.

ehm actually they were especially now that very few people had very heavy armor, imagine that in medieval times crossbows and longbows could sometimes pierce through through full plate armors (made of steel) when they were close, imagine this kind of ancient armors that are much weaker than that, and by the way why do u think Romans whould use testudo or other cultures use shield formations (sometimes spears could go through shield, armor directly in the flesh)

but I think the unit are balanced ok the point is that everyone has too much defence/armor and for this reason melee combat last ages and range units are useless (also because they finish ammo very fast) unless they shoot at the back

I think that that submod would solve the problem but it cannot be downloaded can someone restore the link please

[Bosje]

engage with infantry and have slingers aim at the back of the hoplites....

or play Rome II

[Darkcrusader8]

engage with infantry and have slingers aim at the back of the hoplites....

or play Rome II

yes that is what I am doing (I wrote it in the first post) but it kinda tiering to use range units only in that way (and all melee do last a bit too much)

regarding Rome 2 I am not a big fun of capture points sorry

[Sertorio]

The Mod was balanced for medium so playing on high will make AI units tougher to beat. You can have some information about missiles here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...changed-in-2-6
As to testudo i have never actually used it except for moving on walls and even then almost for the view.

[Darkcrusader8]

well it effects the damage of the enemy archers it simply does not effect the one of yours that's true, (so even if I had put normal nothing would have changed) anyway thanks for that but if someone could restore the download link for faster battles I would really appreciate it

Ps: it has nothing to do with difficulty I play generally on vh/h in every game and never I experienced so long battles even in melee that is why they made a submod, lol

and for the sake of the argument I did try to use archers on normal battle and nothing change if the enemy stands still u do not kill a single man (if they start running u might kill one or two before he reaches u)

and by the way, in that battle, I was using a general with 10 stars against a captain (it means 0 stars) that is like playing on easy using a captain or a general with equal stars so stop saying the fights last too long and the archers are weak because I am playing hard because that is simply not true

As to testudo i have never actually used it except for moving on walls and even then almost for the view.

well that proves my point no?

[Sertorio]

It does not, as i haven't fought eastern faction yet. Holding the formation in testudo while showered with arrows seems sensible enough. But i have almost never used testudo either in vanilla or any mod.
There are ways to use missiles and arrows efectively and in all campaigns i am playing i had have ONE occasional long gring because something gone bad. Most battles were resolved quickly.

[Darkcrusader8]

look I agree that shooting at the back has to be more lethal as even attaccking in melee from the rear but do u honestly think that 3 spartan archers, one slinger and two units of throwing spears cavalry in reality killed 0 hoplites?? Do u really think this has ever happened in reality? ( I can't imagine legionaries) they are going to watch arrows as if they were flowers the testudo formation is going to be useless...

but this is not because archers are underpowered it is because, as I wrote before, everyone does little damage (or they all have a lot of defence/armor) that is why battle are so long and unit rarely go routing

can you (or anyone else) tell me how or when can I download that submod for faster and more lethal battles

thanks in any case

Dark

[Sertorio]

Do i believe that arrow fire caused 0 losses in ancient time in reality? No. Do i believe that few losses were caused by archery? In proportion with the armies size. Yes. Specially when we read about the Greek or Macedon set piece battles against the Persians. The Parthian tactics of hit and run against Rome worked much better. But that's reality. And talking about crossbows or longbows in antiquity is not reality. The most effective weapon was the Persian/Parthian composite bow and we know how that worked for them. Not highly effective against the Greek or Macedonian Phalanx.
But what we are discussing here is game ballancing and not reality.
I don't have that submod so my advice is that you request it on the corresponding thread. Here you risk seeing your request lost.

[cleef]

I too agree the mod needs a decrease in the defence/armor section because the game at this point is simply unrealistic... Hammer and anvil should not be the only way to win a fight (obviously it's an efficient one, but nonetheless, many times, roman armies should not have issues with barbaric tribes for example or poorly equipped rebels).

In my opinion the only thing that needs changing is the kill/death rate of soldiers... No matter what, they just take too long to die... high morale is fine imo though....

Just hoping someone will look into this and maybe make a few changes because this is the best mod for RTW imo.

[Leeham991]

Hard to kill in head to head but with lower morale would be more realistic, and to be honestly I think that's pretty much how it is now. I've won battles against gallic tribes sending 6 thousand off in route rather than actually killing many of them (I do not chase routers when facing multiple armies)

[viktorslama]

I noticed that (playing the Romans) it helps to pile up units gradually. By this I mean I engage them unit-to-unit (and not 3 Romans on 1 Barbarian), lettign them slug each other for a while and then "shock" the neemy by sending another unit, and maybe a cav charge as well. That usually routs most enemies. However there are other factors at play here - both generals' command ratings, the enemy unit itself, etc. Units are more susceptible to morale shocks when they're tired. If you're gonna charge many units into a rested enemy, he's going to fight it out a lot and numbers scare him less.

[Darkcrusader8]

the link seems to work again but I cannot understand what point 5 means

5) Copy and paste the export_descr_unit.txt file you need into the corresponding folder in your installation.....most campaigns unless specifically listed here, use the default EDU file which is found in the root /data folder of your RS2.6 installation.


I have to copy and paste what? which of the the export_descr_unit.txt file in what installation ??? I have already installed the game and I do not see any installation folder

I am playing Sparta 1 turn campaign

[Sertorio]

One-turn campaign has it's own folder. Check for location of the export_descr_unit (it should be in One-turn/data) and replace it for that file. I think that you want to fall back latter you have the original descr file in IMPORTANT STUFF. As the One-turn generic campaign and the Roman one-turn campaign are, well, one turn they need their own EDU (export_descr_unit) because of the recruiting times and the Roman rebels faction. The zero-turn campaigns fall back on the main RS data folder EDU mostly.

[Ovidius Empiricus]

the link seems to work again but I cannot understand what point 5 means 5) Copy and paste the export_descr_unit.txt file you need into the corresponding folder in your installation.....most campaigns unless specifically listed here, use the default EDU file which is found in the root /data folder of your RS2.6 installation. I have to copy and paste what? which of the the export_descr_unit.txt file in what installation ??? I have already installed the game and I do not see any installation folder I am playing Sparta 1 turn campaign

That means you install the file in the "data" sub-folder, in your case inside the "Play_One_Turn" folder, wherever your installation of RS 2.6 is.

So the structure looks like this, in which you overwrite this file:

[whatever your RS2.6 folder is named]....\Play_One_Turn\data\export_descr_unit

And if you play some other kind of campaign (for example, Cimbri 0-turn), there are separate data folders containing different sets of files for them, meaning it would need to be (for example) ....\Play_Cimbri\data\export_descr_unit

[Darkcrusader8]

thank u both + rep

[Darth Bane1]

Very hard campaign? No wonder... vh is bugged...

[Smiling Hetairoi]

"Starts a very hard campaign, later complains it's to hard."