Sarmatian's Bosporan Heavy Infantry is literally INVINCIBLE

[Roma_Victrix]

So I've finally got around to fighting the Sarmatians, who have a gigantic nomadic steppe empire north of my Roman Empire. I'm using my protectorate states, Armenia, Dacia, and what's left of the Free Greeks as buffer states against them (and Parthia). There's also the Cimbri to deal with, although I've reduced them to only five settlements.

Much to my surprise, it appears that the Sarmatian faction has a unit which is utterly invincible. And by that, I mean THEY DO NOT TAKE CASUALTIES. Ever. Period. That pain in my neck unit is the Bosporan Heavy Infantry, which several factions (including Rome) can have.

I first learned of this anomaly when the Sarmatians first laid siege to my settlement at Odessos (modern Varna, Bulgaria). I did fairly well considering the odds. Having a stone wall really helped repel their forces. And then up the ladders come the Bosporan Heavy Infantry. Little by little, they chewed threw every unit I had placed on the ramparts, and their soldier count remained at 240.

WTF?

Then, as there was about only 10 minutes remaining for them to take the city, this unit of Bosporan Heavy Infantry walked all the way to my city square and WIPED OUT HALF MY ARMY without taking a single casualty (their soldier count remained at 240). If it wasn't for the timer and the enemy running out of time, I would have lost the entire siege because of one stupid unit on their side.

At first I thought this was some bizarre fluke. Nope. It happened again. And again. And again. Siege after siege after siege. And not just in siege battles! Field battles as well. In the field, the only way to defeat a Sarmatian army with one or more units of Bosporan Heavy Infantry is to rout every other unit and force their whole army to consider voluntarily fleeing the battle.

WTF?

So, haha, very funny RSII modders, I'm sure you guys had a good laugh over this. But now it's just starting to piss me off. So if someone could kindly tell me what txt file I need to edit in order to stop this , that would be much appreciated. Seriously. No faction should be allowed to have an invincible unit. It's gotten to the point where I just auto-resolve battles with the Sarmatians, which has cost me three settlements so far when I probably could have won those sieges.

Grr.

[ur-Lord Tedric]

And what Battle difficulty are you playing on?

[Roma_Victrix]

I'm playing with medium difficulty.

Wait a minute...you're not honestly suggesting that this is a normal thing for RSII, are you?

What's the point of playing a game where the other side is literally invincible? It's not just a terrible game mechanic, it's also the epitome of unrealistic.

[GRANTO]

hit them in the back with archers or another heavy unit ..it may be that they can chew through anything thats in FRONT of them....im gonna have a look at that and test it

[athanaric]

So if someone could kindly tell me what txt file I need to edit in order to stop this , that would be much appreciated. Seriously. No faction should be allowed to have an invincible unit. It's gotten to the point where I just auto-resolve battles with the Sarmatians, which has cost me three settlements so far when I probably could have won those sieges.

If RS is anything like EB, you'll need to edit the export_descr_units file which should be located in RTW/RSII/Data or something similar. It's probably huge because of the sheer number of units, but you can use the search function.
It would be helpful if somebody posted the stats for that unit, compared to, say, a unit of legionnaires.

You should check the defence skill, attack, lethality, and morale stats of your units. Units on walls need high def/attack skill to stand a chance (for instance, pikemen in EB are useless on walls because of their low def skill).
Also, have you tried axemen or other AP units against them?

[Ovidius Empiricus]

It would be helpful if somebody posted the stats for that unit, compared to, say, a unit of legionnaires.

Here it is:

type bosporan heavy infantry
[...]
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, very_hardy, no_custom
formation 1, 1.66, 2, 3.33, 6, square
stat_health 1, 5
stat_pri 10, 13, javelin, 40, 2, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 25, 1
stat_pri_attr prec
stat_sec 11, 13, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, piercing, spear, 25, 0.334
stat_sec_attr light_spear, spear_bonus_4
stat_pri_armour 16, 19, 10, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -2
stat_mental 21, normal, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1566, 483, 79, 111, 196
ownership barbarian, nomad, carthaginian, eastern, parthia, egyptian, greek, roman

type legio viii augusta
[...]
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, very_hardy, mercenary_unit
formation 1, 1.66, 2, 3.33, 5, square, testudo
stat_health 1, 7
stat_pri 13, 10, pilum_early, 50, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 25, 1
stat_pri_attr prec, ap
stat_sec 13, 10, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, piercing, sword, 25, 0.375
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 15, 28, 12, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, 0, -2, -1
stat_mental 22, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 6, 4536, 1375, 228, 319, 567
ownership romans_brutii, thrace

So something was buggy or battle tactics were lacking. Haven't fought any myself yet, so I don't know. But that's the only way I could make sense out of it. They sure don't look overpowered. Even republican cohorts should beat them, even though the bosphoran's melee attack is pretty high...

type polybian republic legion
[...]
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, very_hardy
formation 1, 1.66, 2, 3.33, 5, square, testudo
stat_health 1, 7
stat_pri 13, 10, pilum_early, 50, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 25, 1
stat_pri_attr prec, ap
stat_sec 12, 10, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, piercing, sword, 25, 0.396
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 15, 23, 12, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, 0, -2, -1
stat_mental 20, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2478, 689, 125, 175, 310
ownership romans_brutii

Did they have lots of experience, gold armor/weapons, by any chance? And what units were you fighting with? Throwing "lots" at them doesn't say much, if they weren't similarly experienced & equipped heavy infantry.

[GRANTO]

hitting them hard from behind i was able to beat them in a slug fest ....so it seems fine to me

[GRANTO]

hitting them hard from behind i was able to beat them in a slug fest ....so it seems fine to me

[meerkatology]

if zero of them died in entire battles then probably some bug.

their stats are above average but by no means invincible. throw pila into their nonshield side, if no one dies its a bug...

[Roma_Victrix]

Hey guys. I really do appreciate all the suggestions, but I'm telling you, whether I'm throwing pila at them, or shooting at them en masse with archers, throwing armored legions at them, or attacking them from behind, there's just no defeating them. Hell, there's no reducing their numbers at all. Period. It's insane. Is it because I'm playing this on a Macintosh, or something?

And keep in mind, any other faction (including the Free Greeks when I was at war with them long ago) that recruits the same unit of Bosporan Heavy Infantry doesn't have this issue at all. They get killed off like any other unit. It's only the Sarmatian faction.

Anyways, I've nipped the problem in the bud as much as possible by going into the "descr_buildings" text file and removing "nomad" from the list of culture types that are allowed to recruit this unit. At the very least, the Sarmatians won't be recruiting them anymore. Auto-resolve battles are the only way to destroy the ones that are left. A shame, really, their skins/textures looked pretty cool on the Sarmatian side.

[Larkin]

Definitely a glitch, as the Greeks I've fought with and against Bosporan Heavy Infantry and they've been just as killable as anything else.

Probably just a random error with your game. I'd edit the unit rather than removing them from nomad recruitment pools as that's a bit unfair...

[Sertorio]

I a MAC save compatible ? I would like to test that if you could provide a save. And if because someone asks you about difficulty level, that might be because we are trying to get all the information about the issue. And no, the modding team don't like to throw invincible units on the players. Tough will suffice.

[Roma_Victrix]

Fair enough. Yes it is save compatible. However, I'm not quite sure how to share saved game files with you.

But like I said above, the issue is pretty much resolved for now since I've denied the Sarmatians the ability to recruit that unit.

@Larkin, if you have any suggestions as to how I could possibly edit the Bosporan Heavy Infantry, I'm all ears. Otherwise, I will not sit idly by and let the Sarmatians just steamroll me with invincible units.

[Sertorio]

Well you can upload a RAR file directly on this thread. But i will start a Scythian Campaign and go Sarmatian on them. 0-Turn or One-Turn?

[Roma_Victrix]

One-turn.

Hey! I finally found a way to defeat them. It's the only way I've discovered how, really. And it involves a bit of cheating, because you're going to need elephants.

That's right, elephants. In the same battle, the Sarmatians threw their Bosporan Heavy Infantry at me, chewing through all my units as usual without a single casualty inflicted on them. Then, when I sicked my elephants on them, BAM! They started dropping like flies. I was actually going to laugh when I expected to see them taking down elephants with no casualties. Instead I was laughing in giddy triumph at having discovered at long last how to take the bastards down without automating battles.

That's some weird programming right there. Seriously. What else could it possibly be? How could it be that only one specific unit (elephants) can take them down if it WASN'T programmed into the script? I'm all ears on that one.

[Sertorio]

Unfortunately a most aggressive interest from Macedon on my Scythian domains is preventing me to test and study those aggressive barbarians. As soon as i can put Macedon back on track i will send a "scientific" expedition.

[Sertorio]

Unfortunately a most aggressive interest from Macedon on my Scythian domains is preventing me to test and study those aggressive barbarians. As soon as i can put Macedon back on track i will send a "scientific" expedition.

[LoGaL]

there is something not working with YOUR version of the game, did a couple of battles and i kicked the bosphoran guys ass with some cohorts

[CatoTheYounger]

A mac? hahahah!. Thanks for the good laugh.

[Roma_Victrix]

Why? What's so damn funny about playing this on a MacBook? In fact, I'm currently downloading Medieval II to play on Mac (via WineSkin), so there.