I DID IT!!! TECH TREE IS MODIFIABLE!!!

[Hazbones]

Mods will be forthcoming now that I have figured out the major parts of the tech tree.
Tomorrow I will try to add more than 3 techs per tier and see what happens.

So far, I have not tried to create a new tech yet so please hold that question until later. I have only been playing with moving techs around and swapping between factions.
I have not had any issues yet and it appears to be pretty simple once you learn the framework.

I will post a tutorial later on but for now, I will start working on my tech tree mod.
Do you guys have any suggestions on how to correctly implement the Roman reforms? That seems to be the biggest thing IMO and was the reason I started messing with the tech tree to begin with.

Until I figure out how to create new techs, please only suggest how to reconfigure the tree using pre-existing techs only.

Thanks.

I attached some pics showing the progress I have made...

1 shows just moving a tech around the tree
2 shows changing the top-tier tech to the middle tier (I put Manipular Organization into the top tier spot)
3 shows a tech swap between gaul's chainmail tech giving it to the romans

[Aodh Mor]

I was able to get all this to work, but adding new techs to the tree seems to be impossible - the ui is locked down in the UI files.

It's fairly easy to add a new tech to the game, but i dont know if it's possible to make it show up in the UI. As for reforms, i'm going down a more complicated route, but one i think will be way better in the end

[Hazbones]

I was able to get all this to work, but adding new techs to the tree seems to be impossible - the ui is locked down in the UI files.

It's fairly easy to add a new tech to the game, but i dont know if it's possible to make it show up in the UI. As for reforms, i'm going down a more complicated route, but one i think will be way better in the end

Do you mean widening the tree frame to allow you to add and see more techs on the screen?
I did some modding for Shogun 2 tech tree and there was nothing that you needed to adjust when adding more tiers or techs to existing tiers in order to see them. I found that the game just simply expanded the tree automatically to fit all the techs onto the screen.

Maybe as you said, the game is still partially locked down and won't let us expand the tree tiers to accommodate more techs but right now, I am too sleepy to test this. I will have to hit it tomorrow.

[Hazbones]

Here was my line of thinking on the Reforms under the Military Management tab:

(Military) Top- Manipular Organization
*The maniple was already in use at the start of the game but my idea was to create a roster of early Roman troops modeled after the previous "hoplite phalanx" model of the Greek army. This way you could play 1 or 2 battles with the old units before you upgrade to the maniple ones.

Early- Chainmail (taken from the Gaul tree)
*This is to symbolize the Romans taking something from one culture and adding it to their own forces
Early- Field Surgery (from the Philosophy tree)
*An early tech that you can upgrade later on giving a military bonus (lessen casulaties)
Early- Training Reform
*This is the "grey area" between the manipular and cohort organizations so there is no sudden shift. Socii (Allied Legions) are recruitable


Mid- Supply Reform
*This symbolizes Marian's reform of the supply system where the State takes over arming and supplying the armies of Rome. Before, each person had to bring their own gear.
Mid- Legal Docs (from the Economy tree)
*This symbolizes Marian's removal of the "property ownership" requirement to serve in the army. Now the poor can join too!
Mid- Cohort Organization
*This is the final step in the Marian Reform where all Hastati, Principes, etc. are swapped for Legionaries. The Socii are given citizenship and revert to Auxiliary troops.


Late- Physicians (from the Philosophy tree)
*This is a late upgrade giving further army bonuses
Late- Merc Assets
*Mercs are now more prevelent in all regions
Late- Professional Soldiery
*Imperial Legions as we know and love!

What do you think?

[redxavier]

When meandering through the db files I saw mention of research points, and wondered if it was possible to change the requirements of technologies so that points function as a resource. Personally, I've never been fond of a branching tree, and would think it would shake up gameplay considerably if you essentially spent "research points" to research technologies in any order you wanted (with higher techs costing more). I think it's easy to do on an abstract level since the turn time is the research points, you'd just be removing all the linking requirements from one to the next. The difference would be that you couldn't always be researching something, and had to choose carefully what you wanted because it's finite.

The advantage of this would the linking of multiple gameplay mechanics into a cohesive whole, as other systems (such as faction politicis and imperium) would then be modified to give you research points. Though it sounds a bit RTS-like... I don't know, I just want the inane faction politics to have some sort of effect.


In any case, great news. I've been looking at technologies as a way of unlocking unit abilities, which remains curiously absent from this game but was all the rage in Shogun.

[Dunadd]

well done - you get rep from me at least

[Hazbones]

well done - you get rep from me at least

Thanks, I was giddy as a school girl when I got that tree figured out.

When meandering through the db files I saw mention of research points, and wondered if it was possible to change the requirements of technologies so that points function as a resource. Personally, I've never been fond of a branching tree, and would think it would shake up gameplay considerably if you essentially spent "research points" to research technologies in any order you wanted (with higher techs costing more). I think it's easy to do on an abstract level since the turn time is the research points, you'd just be removing all the linking requirements from one to the next. The difference would be that you couldn't always be researching something, and had to choose carefully what you wanted because it's finite.

The advantage of this would the linking of multiple gameplay mechanics into a cohesive whole, as other systems (such as faction politicis and imperium) would then be modified to give you research points. Though it sounds a bit RTS-like... I don't know, I just want the inane faction politics to have some sort of effect.


In any case, great news. I've been looking at technologies as a way of unlocking unit abilities, which remains curiously absent from this game but was all the rage in Shogun.

I was thinking something along those lines too using the research points and to hell with the linear tree except for using it to separate the reforms time-wise to keep from getting them done too early.

[TuranianGhazi]

Hi Hazbones,

Very very interesting. Could you upload a file of what you have discovered so far. I learn best by looking at how other modders have made things work.

Currently on my NTE (Nomadic Tribes Expansion) mod, I'm adding custom religious buildings, but it keeps crashing on me. Izanagi has been very helpful. Izanagi managed to add a custom building to Axum faction. Eastern tech tree seems easier to manage for some reason.

I've tried to add a new chain to the barbarian tree for religious nomadic buildings, but somewhere somehow something doesn't register. When I come back home to apartment, I'll try and fix it again.

Also, I was wondering about new technologies or buildings with custom UI and trying to make that custom UI visible.

[Hazbones]

Ok, I have done some more testing on the tech tree and so far I have discovered:

1. The tech tree UI does not auto-expand as it does in Shogun 2 so if you have more than 2 techs on a single tier, they will not be visible.
-----Does anyone know what file needs to be edited to expand the UI to see more techs? Is there a table that defines how many tiers and indents there are in the tech tree?
2. The tech_node_links are purely cosmetic. I deleted all of the lines pointing from one roman tech to another and the world did not collapse. As long as the "tech chains" are intact (defined), it doesn't matter that you cannot see the arrows pointing to them. ------As asked before, you can create free-standing techs that are not connected to any other but, assigning them to a certain number of "research points" I haven't figured out yet. You can of course set a price for techs as usual but there is no table to assign political points to a tech. It would give the political system int he game some kind of relevance if you had to spend political capital to get new techs.
3. Moving techs around on the pre-existing trees is pretty simple. Even moving techs from one culture to another is easy. What I found out though is that if you clone a tech from one place and paste to another, you need to remove the original tech or it will CTD. Just like in the Highlander movies, there can only be one! Keep that in mind when you are wanting to share techs between factions. You must create custom techs to have more than one tech that does the same thing.

What I plan next:

1. Create custom tech chains and custom techs and get them to show up on the tech bar
2. Try to figure out where the tech UI file is and expand it to have more than 3 techs in a column (help anyone?)

I have experience working on the tech tree in Shogun II and created custom buildings too (see my Mettle Blades and Skills mod). I have found creating the custom bldgs far more easy to do than techs! I plan to create custom buildings linked to specific regions (or provinces which ever way CA lets us do it). This way the buildings can host region specific units as I did in my MBS mod.

[redxavier]

Some good news and bad news in there, thanks Hazbones for sharing the fruits of your testing. With the limit imposed by the UI, it sounds like we may be limited to a set number of technologies in each section of tree.
However, there's possibly an opportunity here to do something a bit more interesting within these limits. Firstly, randomised technologies, i.e., techs which are unlocked not by research but by events in the campaign (determined by a wide variety of conditions). I suppose these could technically be considered as permanent faction traits rather than technologies, but the idea would be to have dynamically appropriate technologies unimpeded by any limits from the actual tree. These additional technologies which live outside the trees could either be generic for all factions, faction specific, or a combination of both. The second possibility is to modify spies so that they can steal technology from other factions (bribe_actions is still there in the db files, and includes "give_tech" in the list), again getting around the limit and giving spies more of a unique feel.
I look forward to reading your progress on creating new techs and altering others, as the uninspired effects of the technologies remain one of the most disappointing aspects of this element of the game and could really do with amending.

[Magnar]

Anyone had any luck making tech in one tree require tech in another?

[Hazbones]

Haven't tried it yet but the easiest way to do it (technology_required_technology_table) has been disabled so can't even think about where to begin. I could test to see if the tech_required_tech_table is still functioning even though it is currently empty by attempting to link two techs together and see what happens.

I am waiting for TAW or someone else to crack the UI files so that we can expand the size of the tech tree to show more than currently is available. This tree is killing me.

[Aodh Mor]

Haven't tried it yet but the easiest way to do it (technology_required_technology_table) has been disabled so can't even think about where to begin. I could test to see if the tech_required_tech_table is still functioning even though it is currently empty by attempting to link two techs together and see what happens.

I am waiting for TAW or someone else to crack the UI files so that we can expand the size of the tech tree to show more than currently is available. This tree is killing me.

yeah, why they changed to such a crappy tech tree is beyond me

and as to scripting technology, the only command we have in the LUA that affects technology is the lock_technology function, which when set to not, doesn't research the tech, just makes it available to be researched, It would be great if we could grant a technology to a faction using the lua.

so for now, the big limit is the UI and not displaying new technologies - as for empty tables, i have used some empty tables before and they worked fine, so just try it and see what happens

[Hazbones]

I did the same thing, I used empty tables in Shogun II (or was it NTW?) and they did work. I'll test it and see if the game ignores the linked technologies.