Dealing with cavalry in 2.6

[Leeham991]

I recently patched to 2.6 and I'm having trouble dealing with enemy cavalry. I can't seem to kill them with any deal of ease and at one point I lost an entire legion to a single enemy king, triarii and supporting greek phalanx included.

I was then again surprised when a unit of my celtic archers cut down an entire unit of Averni noblemen in melee combat only taking 25 casualties (of which 16 were healed afterwards) and wondered if maybe the key to killing cavalry was very light infantry like in EB, but my own cavalry seem to cut down the enemy skirmishers with little trouble. So, I have no idea how to really deal with enemy cavalry other than sending in my own cavalry or possibly celtic archer warbands which are extremely vulnerable to enemy infantry.
Does anyone know what I should do?

M/M (I heard it is the most balanced because H/H will cause the AI to be insanely overpowered and not fun to play again, and VH/VH is broke)



I also noticed that missiles do almost nothing at all and in fact had a unit of heavy spearmen charge into my legion taking 2 volleys from 3 cohorts and not taking a single casualty.

[GreatOne]

The shield value on most of the units is really high so the missiles wont do much if you throw them head on or on their shielded side. The way I deal with enemy cav is just surrounding their units with my own, or picking them off with archers.

[Hate Farmer]

I lost an entire legion to a single enemy king, triarii and supporting greek phalanx included.

There's no way that's accurate...

[Leeham991]

Committing troops to surround cavalry takes a lot of battle resources which are needed for the front line, though in one battle I played the cavalry I surrounded didn't route until the entire enemy infantry line was routed and off the field.

@Hate Farmer: 1 general, 10 allied cohort, 2 allied triarii, 1 roman triarii, 2 roman equites, 1 levy pikeman, 2 allied velites. Enemy was the Macedonian king with 5 hoplite units. The hoplites were gone in 10 minutes, but the king stuck around for another hour killing all of my men until the cohorts collapsed into route and I sent my general off the field as the triarii and pikemen got massacred also. Enemy general brought 120 men to the field, left with 75.

PS: It's taken me nearly 45 minutes to post this message. Forum is messed up.

[Hate Farmer]

Committing troops to surround cavalry takes a lot of battle resources which are needed for the front line, though in one battle I played the cavalry I surrounded didn't route until the entire enemy infantry line was routed and off the field.

@Hate Farmer: 1 general, 10 allied cohort, 2 allied triarii, 1 roman triarii, 2 roman equites, 1 levy pikeman, 2 allied velites. Enemy was the Macedonian king with 5 hoplite units. The hoplites were gone in 10 minutes, but the king stuck around for another hour killing all of my men until the cohorts collapsed into route and I sent my general off the field as the triarii and pikemen got massacred also. Enemy general brought 120 men to the field, left with 75.

PS: It's taken me nearly 45 minutes to post this message. Forum is messed up.

Ah that has to be a bug then. I kill generals with militia hoplites in 2.6 all the time. They do tend to rough up my heavy infantry but 2 units will kill 1 general every time without fail. If this is consistent you should try a new campaign and see if it happens again.

[Ovidius Empiricus]

I was then again surprised when a unit of my celtic archers cut down an entire unit of Averni noblemen in melee combat only taking 25 casualties (of which 16 were healed afterwards) and wondered if maybe the key to killing cavalry was very light infantry like in EB, but my own cavalry seem to cut down the enemy skirmishers with little trouble.

It's not as extreme as EB, but skirmishers are very useful against cavalry (as missile units, not in melee). Slingers are especially good, because half of the armor rating is ignored. However, this does not apply to the shield rating, only armor, so try to swing them around the flanks (preferably your left flank), while keeping them protected with a small reserve of heavy infantry in case the cavalry charge them instead of some other part of the line. Hitting from the side or the back means they can effectively ignore shields as well.

I often won't put them in skirmish mode (to just forget about them), because by the time they back off in response, the cavalry are already too close and moving too fast for them to get away. They also tend to go in directions I don't want while in skirmish mode, and most everyone else can handle themselves and don't have the potential for friendly-fire, so my attention is usually better focused on them anyway. If there are some spearmen waiting behind the slingers/archers, they can charge forward at the cavalry while the skirmishers retreat (to the side or between the infantry units). The cavalry are then engaged with some spears, and the missiles can again move around to hit them from behind. Lots of damage. Doesn't matter if it's the Macedonian king: no cavalry lasts very long that way.

[Zydrius]

The simplest way which i have found is to let AI cavalry to engage into melee combat against my infantry and then charge into their ranks with my own cavalry: kinda gamey tactic, bet this kills AI cavalry kinda quick, especially if it's light cavalry. AI cavalry sometimes also just "sits" on the flank and you can also charge into them... Missiles also do their work well.

[Searry]

Use spearmen in guard mode to run in the middle of them(hold RMB and make a nice formation in the middle of the enemy cavalry) let them push themselves inside the enemy formation, unguard them, and let the massacre begin.

[gaunty14]

Strange bugs aside.....use spearmen or your own heavy cav?

[Sertorio]

You have to look to your own army and faction for answers. If you have a setup heavy on cavalry and the quality of it is good, then you can use your cavalry to take out the AI cavalry and still have something to use against the AI infantry rear/flanks.
If by contrary, you have an infantry heavy setup, then you want to use spearmen or light infantry against the AI cav, then using you own cav/general on already engaged AI cavalry.
You can also use your light infantry to trick the AI cav to engage, so chosing exactly where and when you are going to take them out.
Ex: Playing with Carthage i will use my cavalry to take out equites, playing with Rome i will use light infantry to lure/pin the Carthaginean cav and only then back it with spearmen or equites.

[Hate Farmer]

You guys didn't read everything he wrote. 1 general apparently took out almost a full stack of his, including 3 spearmen and a phalangite. No other explanation other than a bug.

[Sertorio]

Actually i was more addressing to cavalry besides the "bug". As to the bug i have one question. Autoresolve ?

[Zydrius]

Actually i was more addressing to cavalry besides the "bug". As to the bug i have one question. Autoresolve ?

I recently patched to 2.6 and I'm having trouble dealing with enemy cavalry. I can't seem to kill them with any deal of ease and at one point I lost an entire legion to a single enemy king, triarii and supporting greek phalanx included.

Might be, but not necessarily. He went against AI king army (many units, decent experience and upgrades) and if his legion was led by a captain or some moron they must have routed . I would also suspect legion having poor upgrades.

[meerkatology]

Dealing with heavy cavalry as rome:

-charge them from the back after they charge your infantry - even if your cavalry is weaker this will still cause massive casualties to them.

-if your cav is some what similar in quality, you can charge theirs when their's isn't moving - this will still cause alot of casualties

-in cav vs. cav, out numbering is EXTREMELY effective i guess it has to do with the side with less men getting hit from the back and what not. but if you out number the enemy cav unit with like 2 units of your own, theirs will die VERY quickly causing you minimal casualties even your cav is weaker than theirs.

-if all you have is infantry, put them in manipular formation and when one group gets charged, use anohter group to throw pila into their side or back, throwing armor piercing pila into the nonshield side of any cavalry will absolutely destroy them.

-take genoa quickly and build a allied barracks, this place can make allied germanic cavalry (they have AP secondary attack and are extremely cheap, they destroy most other cavs as long as you make them use their secondary weapon in melee), this place can also make Insubres infantry, they are bascially like triarii but 2x cheaper , extremely godly cost effective op infantry unit, spam them.

again rome doens't have many op units but they have just the tools to deal with just about any situation.

the AI is a joke regardless of difficulty. even after i triple unit cost and force myself to use low taxes. on M/M you can simply crank up taxes to VH on your starting cities, have endless income and spam elite units, you will not lose to anything...

[Sertorio]

Reading the thread more carefully i realized it is not an autoresolve issue. As posted already, armor and experience upgrades combined with a multi-star general can have a nasty effecto on a green legion. Probably enhanced if playing on huge were a General bodyguard will probably reach a very impressive number.
Using Guard mode on your infantry can help against cavalry. But i don't recall ever facing a situation of an invulnerable General. Are you shure it was not a 2.5 Seleucid elephant in disguise ?

[MacBlain]

Do you understand how cavalry charge bonuses work? This is one of the biggest problems with the RTW engine, in my opinion. Cavalry charge bonuses are a tremendous weapon that, practically, do not exist for the AI. It's one reason why the battles will never be very difficult for an experienced player.

In a one-on-one custom battle you should be able to kill a unit of nakharars with any medium cavalry unit such as xystophoroi, with very few losses. (Fewer than twenty casualties).

Your cavalry, even if inferior, should be able to cripple the enemy cavalry at the beginning of every battle. Do you know how to do this?

[ur-Lord Tedric]

The 'cavalry charge bonus' - part of a myth that spawns the rolling panzer shock armies we see today......

Now the film's 'Ride of the Rohirrim ' has even more to answer for.

[MacBlain]

How do you think cavalry should work? Any ideas how we could improve the game? This really bothers me.

[meerkatology]

in reality cavalry should only be able to charge once per fight, thier lance/spear breaks on charge

you can limit yourself and only charge once with your cavs per fight, afterwards u have to use them to melee if you want to continue using them. this will make it more fair to the AI since they dont know how to charge properly

as far as AI never using their cavalry's secondary weapon... this is a fundamental flaw of the AI i dont know if its moddable.

[Leeham991]

I've taken to bringing 4 units of cavalry to the field instead of 2 whenever the space allows it, seems to be working out well so far.