Royal Cataphracts Overpowered with Patch 3?

[Ashu-Siralis]

I've tested it a bit, and in the hands of a good player, it will be unbelievable.

[Jackal2233]

The problem is the hitpoint mechanic, I don't know why their idea of increasing battle time = increasing hitpoints

Melee Defense, Armor, sure, but hitpoints? It's the least strategic element in gameplay IMO

[alex33]

Honestly thats how cataphracts are supossed to be. They should get tired quit fast if you ask me

[kambiz]

I've tested them in a quick battle with one my friends (with patch3 beta) in 1 vs 1 battle against Arverni Noble horse and those barbarians could still kick them in all kind of engagements except when Royal cataphract used their special abilities and Noble horse not ! Is it acceptable to you Ashu-Siralis ??!

[the_mango55]

I've tested them in a quick battle with one my friends (with patch3 beta) in 1 vs 1 battle against Arverni Noble horse and those barbarians could still kick them in all kind of engagements except when Royal cataphract used their special abilities and Noble horse not ! Is it acceptable to you Ashu-Siralis ??!

An elite melee cavalry should beat an elite shock cavalry one on one. Because the shock cavalry is much better than the melee cavalry at destroying infantry.

[kambiz]

An elite melee cavalry should beat an elite shock cavalry one on one. Because the shock cavalry is much better than the melee cavalry at destroying infantry.

I don't care about this dumb categorizing CA introduced (unnecessarily) to the game. Just like many others I believe that Parthia's best cavalry (Which seemingly is Royal Cataphract) must be the best Cavalry in the game ,because not only it is historically realistic but also as Parthians were only dependent on their mounted force.

Generally I believe that if CA follow historical path for modifying unit's states then I'm sure many things would be balanced automatically ! For example while Parthians had great cavalry and archers yet they were weak in infantry (reflected in the game) as well as they had no heavy ranged weapons at all (not reflected in the game) so either they should have no Onager and Ballista or maybe just an early ballista. Parthians also should not have access to elephant and camel directly but as mercenaries only.

Now if this is implemented then the parthians may be able to dominate the open field battles but in hilly ,forested and especially in siege battles they would be in huge disadvantage and this is what happened in real life as well.

[Heathen Storm]

Is there no pleasing anyone?

[PlPs]

Royal Cataphracts must be one of the best units in the game. so, I'd be so glad if they OP.

[DochtorGajo]

So to sum it up: Royal kataphracts might be overpowered, because they can defeat a unit if two of them gang on single infantry unit from front and back, when the said unit is RUNNING against them and is completely unsuppported.

I really dont get it: oathsworn can be said to be overpowered, phalanxes can be said to be overpowered, they are simply send and forget units , while you need to click to hell and even in this ideal situation loose half of them units. Yet people are fine with sword infantry, whose charge can destroy inferior units quicker, than kataphracts charge, but complain about shock cavalry having at least SOME utility.

What overpowered looks like? Sending four units frontally against 4 units like here standing together in phalanx and winning, losing 40 men. Complaining they have a charge to defeat infantry in situation they are meant to is BS.

What about making a video titled oathsworn overpowered in any patch? And sending 4 oathsworn against 4 spartan heroes and see how each unit lives on after the fight with 60-70 men still living at worst? Or pit them against 4 kataphracts to see SWORD unit, that should be meant to be defeated shock cavalry surviving in good numbers to fight elsewhere after destroying cavalry, that cant retreat without loosing quarter to half of its number. (Which is evident from this video as well.)

What about making a video titled hoplites overpowered in any patch? And get cheapest hoplites to simply stand and let 4 units of 1020 kataphracts smash against them loosing utterly and hardly killing quarter of your men? Or better simply run around like AI did in this video and still win with a little more casualties?

What about a video anything overpowered against cavalry in a forest?

I hope at the very least its left as it is in patch 4 and no debilitating changes are made to shoch cavalry on behalf of something like this.

[AusHaching]

The distinction between "shock" and "melee" cavalry exists since ETW. There you had "lancers" (=shock) and cavalry with sabers (=melee).

I´d say as of patch 4, shock cavalry is too weak. For example, with the hellenic factions you get the Citizen Cavalry, a really decent heavy melee cavalry. As Athens, you can also buy the a lot more expensive hippeus lancers. The stat block for the two are as follows (thanks to honga.net):

Citizen Cav:


Hippeus Lancers:


As one can see, the major difference is the charge bonus on one hand, the melee defence on the other. The 900 gold base cost hippeus lancers has a defence score that is only 2/3 of the score Eastern Spearmen - one of the worst units in the game - gets (Egyptian Infantry has 24 as well, Suebi Club Levy has 22). In short, 16 is not just a bad score, it is an abysmal one. This is the reason that Shock Cav can not survive in melee.

Royal Catas are barely better at a defence score of 18. Companion Cav also has 18.

I do get that lance-armed cavalry is not as good in melee as sword-armed. But the defence scores for elite heavy shock cav is simply too low. It is almost always better to charge with melee cav instead of shock cav - and that is a balancing issue, especially as you cannot really withdraw - charge - withdraw without loosing your cavalry to even the most basic of spearmen.

[Toho]

lol OP, do you even know how to play this game? have you checked the greek roster? clearly not.

Apis cavalry murder everything.
Apis & Companion combo is unstoppable in a cavalry fight.

Cataphracts over powered... pffft.

[VanGoth]

@Toho: It's called Aspis, not Apis...do you even play this game? Apis...pffft

@Topic: Shock Cav per se became very strong with patch 4, theres ne need to even consider melee cav into the mix. Royal Cataphracts can charge frontally into an enemy line, when supported by a proper fear build it will rout an army in about 2 mins. Surely not in every occasion, but still^^

I hope they bring some balance into the cav and ranged department soon, something like patch 3 with a slightly better Shock Cav comes to mind, and personally i had no real gripes when it came to ranged balancing in patch 3.

[acm_no1]

@Toho: It's called Aspis, not Apis...do you even play this game? Apis...pffft

@Topic: Shock Cav per se became very strong with patch 4, theres ne need to even consider melee cav into the mix. Royal Cataphracts can charge frontally into an enemy line, when supported by a proper fear build it will rout an army in about 2 mins. Surely not in every occasion, but still^^

I hope they bring some balance into the cav and ranged department soon, something like patch 3 with a slightly better Shock Cav comes to mind, and personally i had no real gripes when it came to ranged balancing in patch 3.

Cataphracts are overpowered in Single Player, they murder everything, Aspis Companion cant even compare to them

just some examples:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

and they're not even Royal Cataphracts, just weaker version, Eastern Cataphracts lol

[AngryTitusPullo]

Yeah. They are overpowered. That's why I limited myself to only 2 eastern cataphracts and only the general's royal cataphracts in my all cavalry Parthian armies (all 15 of them). Just charge and charge and charge.....

[karamazovmm]

Yeah. They are overpowered. That's why I limited myself to only 2 eastern cataphracts and only the general's royal cataphracts in my all cavalry Parthian armies (all 15 of them). Just charge and charge and charge.....

what is there to do with shock cavalry besides charging?

I want some new mints, but they wont nit em for me, useless units