Faction: Casse - Time of Soldiers/Time of Bondsman

[Pelican Man]

Hello Guys,

So, I have been back at EB since RTW2 has been so far a dissapointment, and I am killing time waiting for a proper update. So I think I have myself a couple months of playing EB.

In regards to Casse, there are two types of reform.

Time of Bondsman
Time of Soldiers

Unfortunately, I cannot find what these two reforms actually do to the faction. I wanted to know if someone here can explain what happens when I reach this.

I read through the facts, and I know how to get to it, But I would like to know what am I getting out of this.

Please let me know and I would greatly appreciate it.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYA

P-MAN (I still get a kick out of writing that... lol 8 years and counting...)

[Ryoga84]

As far as I remember, these aren't Casse reforms but Celtics reforms, as the 3 celtic factions sum their achievements. Paradoxically you could get the reforms for free if the 2 other factions do a good work.
Simply, each reform unlock new troops (like Gaeliche) and dismiss older troops (as the chariots).

[Ryoga84]

-double-

[Pelican Man]

so basically the reform takes out chariots and adds troops and that's it.

Ok. sounds good

Thanks!!!

[Pelican Man]

double. shite. sorry.

[Brihentin13]

I don't recall any reforms removing chariots from the Casse. All 3 Celtic factions lose access to Celtic levy spearmen and gain more heavy infantry(Calawre and Ryacalawre for Casse/Neitos and Solduros for the Arverni and Aedui)

[Ryoga84]

I can misremember, but I think one of the reforms remove the chariots (as recruitable unit, not general bodyguard) from the Casse roster

[Brihentin13]

Huh. It seems like the Casse would keep chariots. Without chariots, the Casse are just a weaker clone of the Aedui/Arverni. The body paint, champions, and chariots are what set the Casse apart culturally and unit wise. If the chariots are gone, then the reforms would have to add a good heavy cavalry unit to the Casse, like Brihentin. Of course, with Brihentin added, once again you have the problem of them just becoming an Arveni clone.

[Entropy Judge]

Huh. It seems like the Casse would keep chariots. Without chariots, the Casse are just a weaker clone of the Aedui/Arverni.

Unlike the Arverni/Aedui, the Casse keep their Teceitos through the Reforms instead of losing them. Also, Rycalawre are superior to Solduros. And you could always restore the Ordmalica and Dubosaverlacica for them.

[Pelican Man]

What's also nice with Casse, are the Calledonian Skirmishers (however you spell it) are absolutely amazing. Those units kick arse

[Duncan III]

What's also nice with Casse, are the Calledonian Skirmishers (however you spell it) are absolutely amazing. Those units kick arse

Caledonians always gonna kick soft white ass.

[athanaric]

Bondsmen:

+Gaelaiche
+Cemmeinarn (Midlander spearmen, defensive) (IIRC)
+Calawre
+Myrcharn (Briton horsemen; useful in Britain, but not so much on the continent)


Soldiers:

-Lugoae
-Cidainh (chariots)
+Rycalawre
+Kluddargos

[putoconcarne]

@athanaric sorry if this might sound a bit demanding, but can you do something like that for Aedui and Arverni? I've been curious about those reforms myself, especially regarding the troop types gained and lost. And do Aedui and Arverni really lose Teceitos during one of those reforms (as Entropy Judge has implied)?

[athanaric]

@athanaric sorry if this might sound a bit demanding, but can you do something like that for Aedui and Arverni? I've been curious about those reforms myself, especially regarding the troop types gained and lost.

Sure, keep in mind though that I'm doing these for memory, as I don't have EB, or any related files, with me ATM.


Bondsmen:

-Cidainh
+Gaelaiche
+unique unit (IIRC)


Soldiers:

-Teceitos
-Lugoae
+Neitos
+Brihentin


So yeah, the Gauls have a disadvantage in that they lose Teceitos and chariots along the way. Keep in mind though that Teceitos can't be recruited in most of Gaul anyway, and that you can recruit similar axemen in northern Iberia and throughout the Alps. The reforms are worth it though because the Gaelaiche will put your main infantry body (if you want a historically plausible army) on equal footing with Germanics and Iberians, and the usefulness of the heavy infantry and cavalry units is pretty much self-explanatory.

In Germania (should you want to go there for whatever reason) you can recruit mercenary clubmen and Worgozez. The latter are useful in any case because they're axemen and frighten infantry and are very good at hiding, which means they're very useful against Romans (not as line infantry though, just flankers or ambushers). In Illyria, you can spam Illyrian Levies, who're terrible against Barbarian units, but are very useful expedable AP units against Roman or Macedonian elites.

In the end though, the one thing the (late game) Gauls really lack (which becomes obvious when you face the Romans) is a widely available mid-to-low tier AP infantry unit like Teceitos. The same thing can be said of the Romani and the KH, though.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

Hi there !

I faced a strange thing while playing Casse.

I just used this faction to roleplay Belgae, so I dropped Camulosadae and took Bratosporios and Bagacos.
I played fine, and other celtic factions (and myself) managed to go to the time of bondsmen reform, and then to the time of soldier reforms.

But.

Arverni has been wiped out by Aedui and Romani.
And Aedui declared war to me and sieged Bratosporios.

I decided to play Belgae, so instead of an expansionism strategy, I used harrasment, devastations and looting. Every settlements I took, I destroyed everything inside (including temples and markets...) and gave it back to the Aedui with peace condition and commerce.

I did that a lot and and worked well. (and made me quite richer). At a time, the whole gaule was just empty except my two settlments.
After a time, I decided to invade Britania. So I went back to Camulosadae, captured it, developped it.

But here is the thing : when I finished my L3 market, I went back to time of Bondsmen!
Indeed, from all the celtic settelments, only mine had L3 markets, witch is the trigger for time of Bondsmen.

Did someone had the same problem ? Did you manage to do something about it ? Because comming from "time of soldiers" to "time of bondsmen" is quite a loss!

[Ownager]

I think you destroyed so many forums while raiding that you sent the barbarian factions backwards. Then, when you built what must have been the amount required for time of bondsmen reforms, it gave you those reforms. Ex: If you destroyed all but two lvl 3 markets, and then the required amount for time of bondsmen was three, and you built one in Camulosadae, then it sent you back in time.

[Dargaron]

That is really weird. It's a given of Rome modding that you can't destroy buildings via script. Did new markers get placed in your cities, or did they actually replace your "Time of Soldiers" markers. Because the reform markers don't ever go away: they just get superseded by later ones. Can you still build Time of Soldiers MiCs?

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

That is really weird. It's a given of Rome modding that you can't destroy buildings via script. Did new markers get placed in your cities, or did they actually replace your "Time of Soldiers" markers. Because the reform markers don't ever go away: they just get superseded by later ones. Can you still build Time of Soldiers MiCs?

Hi,

Sorry, it was christmas eve so I could not answer then.

Actually I found out the real problem :

I keep getting the "time of soldier" building in my belgian settlements, but I get only the "time of bondsmen" in Camulosadae.

I tried with an other settlement (Ankyra) and it was the same.

Ownager is right : I destroyed every markets on the whole Gaul so the problem is that. It is not a feature, it seems to be a bug : If it was a feature, all the settlements would have been downgraded. There should be a no-return point when a culture gets a reform.

[Dargaron]

Hi,

Sorry, it was christmas eve so I could not answer then.

Actually I found out the real problem :

I keep getting the "time of soldier" building in my belgian settlements, but I get only the "time of bondsmen" in Camulosadae.

I tried with an other settlement (Ankyra) and it was the same.

Ownager is right : I destroyed every markets on the whole Gaul so the problem is that. It is not a feature, it seems to be a bug : If it was a feature, all the settlements would have been downgraded. There should be a no-return point when a culture gets a reform.

Ah, I think I know what's happening: the script probably checks to see if you've met the reform requirements, then puts an appropriate script marker in your cities. Since you no longer meet the requirements for the reforms, whenever you conquer a city, it should only get the marker for the previous set of reforms (since I assume you have the requirements for those).

It's be nice if it were possible to "downgrade" Gaul back to the Time of Tribes or something, because it certainly sounds like the Gaul in your campaign is getting hammered.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

Ah, I think I know what's happening: the script probably checks to see if you've met the reform requirements, then puts an appropriate script marker in your cities. Since you no longer meet the requirements for the reforms, whenever you conquer a city, it should only get the marker for the previous set of reforms (since I assume you have the requirements for those).

It's be nice if it were possible to "downgrade" Gaul back to the Time of Tribes or something, because it certainly sounds like the Gaul in your campaign is getting hammered.

Indeed it seems true.

Or it could be that it check every turns which conditions are met for which reform.

- "if conditions for time of soldiers are met, set time of soliders"
- "if condtions for time of bondsmen are met, set time of bondsmen"

Every turn. So I am not sure if the "downgrade" vs "upgrade" concept is know by the game. I think it just apply first or second reform depending of the conditions, every turns.

There should be a priorization of the reform. Add the concept line where "if time of soliders conditions have been met already, then don't trigger at any circonstances time of bondsmen".

I think the coding never anticipated the fact that it was possible to destroy all celts building in a way that "time of bondsmen" will be triggered again.