Factional bonuses (pertaining to recruitment, at least) do not work ingame

[Ahiga]

Problem: Factional bonuses or penalties with regards to recruitment (Mercenary or otherwise) do not function.

I noticed when playing Carthage that none of my factional or family bonuses appeared to be active ingame. On the contrary, mercenaries were more expensive on the initial price (and no difference in upkeep), when Carthage's factional bonus is supposed to be -40% to the upkeep of mercenaries. Similarly, the Hannoids have the +10% to recruiting non mercenaries. Libyan Hoplites are 330 to buy and 80 to upkeep ingame. They are 330 to buy and 80 upkeep ingame.

Worse yet: The bonus is applied inversely! Instead of -40% to the upkeep of mercenaries, Carthage gets roughly +25% to the purchasing cost of mercenaries!

Mercenary Thureos spearmen are 380 to buy, 380 upkeep in data_Rome2.
-Ingame they cost 504 to buy as the Hannoids and 380 upkeep. 504 - 380 = 124. 124 is 24% of 504.
Mercenary Tarantine Cavalry are 420 to buy and 420 upkeep in data_Rome2.
-In game they 557 to buy, 420 upkeep ingame. 557-420 = 137. 137 is 24% of 557.

In comparison:

For Rome, Mercenary Thureos Spearmen ingame are 371 to buy, 380 upkeep.
For Rome, Tarantine cavalry ingame are 410 to buy, 420 for upkeep.

For Athens, Mercenary Thureos Spearmen are 285 to buy, 380 upkeep
For Athens, Mercenary Tarantines are 315 to buy, 420 upkeep.

Athens is supposed to have +10% to the recruitment cost of non mercenary units.

Athenian Hoplites are 600 to recruit at the start of the campaign, 120 upkeep. In the data_rome2.pack, Hoplites are 600 to purchase, 120 for upkeep.

If I buy the unit, my funds drop to 4400 from 500 (Thus minus 600).
Similarly, if I recruit a ship I should get +1 experience as Athens. I do not get any experience on the recruited unit.

Someone could make the case that cultural affinity rewards a bonus towards recruitment - however, that doesn't dismiss the fact that Carthage gets nothing of it's -40% reduction in mercenary upkeep. Nor do the Hannoids get any change in their recruitment costs of native troops. Athens likewise does not get +10% in the recruitment cost of native troops.

[krisslanza]

It might be a situational bug, or maybe some factions not working properly. I have only played Rome still (seems wrong to play any faction but Rome until you beat it...), and I know for a fact their faction penalties/bonuses are all working...

[bzhou]

Strange. Going to test this now. I know other faction effects that definitely work: diplomacy bonus/penalty, barbarian +1 public order, cultural public order.

Started up as Carthage (-40% merc upkeep) and Hannonid dynasty (+10% non-merc recruitment). No other faction-wide, general/statement attribute, or wonders bonuses that I can see in any of the settlements of generals. General Hannibal has -10% unit upkeep.

Units on Hannibal:
General unit 81 (actual)/90 (base, according to encyclopedia) upkeep. Libyan Hoplite 72/80 upkeep. Good so far.
Recruit Hoplite 363/330. Recruit jav 352/320. Good
Mercenary jav/numidian cavalry upkeep is checking out as well at -40%.

What's interesting is recruitment cost for the merc numidian cavalry (paralleled for merc javs):
278/370 for non-factional merc, i.e., the ones that anyone can recruit in the region.
310/370 for factional merc., i.e., your faction can recruit from anywhere. These have the exact same unit stats.

278/370 is pretty much 75%, so for some reason there is a 25% discount cost for recruiting the normal merc.
278 is pretty much 10/11 of 310. 310/370 is ~83%. This makes absolutely no sense at all, given the available information.

However, the -40% upkeep definitely seems to be working.

[Ahiga]

Mercenary jav/numidian cavalry upkeep is checking out as well at -40%.

What's interesting is recruitment cost for the merc numidian cavalry (paralleled for merc javs):
278/370 for non-factional merc, i.e., the ones that anyone can recruit in the region.
310/370 for factional merc., i.e., your faction can recruit from anywhere. These have the exact same unit stats.

278/370 is pretty much 75%, so for some reason there is a 25% discount cost for recruiting the normal merc.
278 is pretty much 10/11 of 310. 310/370 is ~83%. This makes absolutely no sense at all, given the available information.

However, the -40% upkeep definitely seems to be working.

But wait, you said the merc jav/numidian cavalry upkeep is 370 - which is what it's listed as in the data_rome2 packfile as their standard upkeep cost. That'd mean there isn't any -40% upkeep functioning.

Actually hold on, you are right - I see the upkeep reduction now.

[bzhou]

But wait, you said the merc jav/numidian cavalry upkeep is 370 - which is what it's listed as in the data_rome2 packfile as their standard upkeep cost. That'd mean there isn't any -40% upkeep functioning.

Nope. Reread! (I think)

"Mercenary jav/numidian cavalry upkeep is checking out as well at -40%." 60% of 370, or 222.

I am now looking at the difficulty level effects. Easy seems to have -10% unit upkeep, but no effect on recruitment cost.

Edit: confirmed. Unmodified upkeep for non-mercs on normal.

[Ahiga]

Appreciate it Bzhou, it'll be good to get a cross-reference to see if there is something wrong on my end.

I am pretty sure I did encounter the faction effect working for Egypt with regards to public disorder and I think +1 to ship experience. Not sure on that one.

The only other theory I can think of is that the bonus only applies to the factional mercenaries (numidian cavalry and numidian javelineers) - which would just imply the factional bonus is such terrible crap rather than broken to apply to only two units. Which is what I have a sneaking suspicion it is.

Even if that is the case, it only makes their initial price cheaper - not the upkeep, which remains fixed at 370.

As a Test I changed the value rom_faction_trait_carthage_core_mercenaries from -40 to 400. The campaign menu said I'd gain 400% more upkeep from mercenaries (having said -40% back with the correct variable). And it didn't change anything that I could see.

[bzhou]

See my edited first post.

I checked encyclopedia rather than the files, though.

[Ahiga]

Yeah, it turns out one of my mods is interfering with it. I thought I had isolated any relevant tables that were edited, but turns out I didn't. I'm running vanilla and now there is the upkeep reduction. I think the issue is that the mercenaries have to be listed in the respective merc tables -along with- the startpos. That explains the mercenary costs to an extent, but it doesn't explain why I had Athens not getting any penalty to their regular unit's costs.

False alarm then, my bad. :x Possibly. Need to figure out -why- it got bugged the way it did. Appreciate the help, Bzhou!


Also regarding the cultural variations, that's due to the mercenary_pool_modifiers table. Which seems to apply some variables to it.

[bzhou]

Yep!