View Poll Results: What name for the Mod would you prefer. vote or the sea people will come for you!

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  • Heroic Age: Total War

    47 8.67%
  • Total War: Ancient Civilazations

    39 7.20%
  • Total War: Dawn of Civilazations

    73 13.47%
  • Total War: Age of Bronze

    366 67.53%
  • Total War: Dusk of an Era

    17 3.14%
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Thread: Age of Bronze - General Discussion

  1. #101
    Dontfearme22's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    Just looked it up,
    The Philistines emerged right around the end of the Bronze age
    so their a chronological outlier but still relatively within the time frame.
    Thanks for making me look it up

  2. #102
    PunitorMaximus's Avatar TWTEAW Mod Leader
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    INFORMATION OVERLOAD!!! awesome

    considering sea people: most evidence shows that they emerged from the lukka lands (cilicia) in southern anatolia in 1200 BC.
    the hittites described the wars against that people and they match other descriptions from all over the eastern mediterranian. also the hittites never managed to completely control the lukka lands.
    the cilician invaders and the eruption of the vulcano of santorini destroyed the achaean culture within 2-3 decades almost completely and forced the proto-greeks to settle in mountain forts for the next few hundred years.

    the phillistines are the descendants of some sea people invaders that settled at the iudaean coast regions.
    later they tried to push into the interior of the country. and failed.

    thx, PM

  3. #103
    billydilly's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    Allright, I have collected some of the faction names from the different maps:

    EUROPEAN FACTIONS:
    Aegean Greek
    Thebes
    Achaeans
    Myceans
    Minoans?
    Dorians
    Illyrians
    Thracians
    Dacians
    Sicels
    Italian tribes?
    Iberian tribes?
    Briton tribes?
    Teutonic tribes?
    Baltic tribes?
    Slavic tribes?

    -----------------------------

    STEPPE FACTIONS:
    Cimmerians
    Volga
    Scythians

    -----------------------------

    NEAR EAST FACTIONS:
    Troy/Wilusa
    Hittites
    Arrapha (Hurrians)
    Mittani (Hurrians)
    Urkesh (Hurrians)
    Yamhad (Hurrians)
    Lukka
    Assuwa
    Arzawa
    Kaskians
    Colchis
    Hayasa
    Ishuva
    Hanigalbat
    Mushki
    Cadusii
    Iberia
    Medes
    Urartu
    Kizzuwatna (in Anatolia)

    Phoencia
    Amorite
    Caananites
    Arameans
    Alashiya (Cyprus)
    Arabian Tribes?
    Sea-People?

    Assyria
    Babylon
    Kassites
    Manneans
    Elam
    Dilmun

    -----------------------------

    AFRICAN FACTIONS:
    Egypt
    Libu
    Nubia/Kush
    Ethiopia
    Berber tribes?

    -----------------------------

    It seems that meny of the factions were city states in confederations/kingdoms. It is very difficult to find anything about factions in western europe.
    Last edited by billydilly; October 01, 2013 at 04:31 AM.
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  4. #104
    billydilly's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    CPU: Intel i7-8700. GPU: MSI GTX 1070 Armor 8G. RAM: Corsair Vengance, 16Gb HD: Kingston SSD 240Gb (System), Samsung 850 Evo SSD 500Gb (Steam), Western Digital 500Gb. PSU: Corsair CX600W

  5. #105

    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    This is a mod that should totally happen!

  6. #106

    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    Quote Originally Posted by billydilly View Post
    Manneans
    Elam
    You'll have a hard time differentiating these two culturally and militarily. Merge them into Persis and start them out in that region.

    I'm guessing Akkad wouldn't fit historically into your mod?

  7. #107
    PunitorMaximus's Avatar TWTEAW Mod Leader
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    this is just a great amount of commitment!
    thx a lot, i'll post that headline image at the first page, if you give me permission

    As far as i know all greek city states were client states or allies of the mycenaeans.
    assur ruled all of persia except for the mitanni, egypt subjugated parts of nubia/kush and the hittites controlled almost all of anatolia (except for lukka and southwest anatolia)

    as it's not possible to make custom armour at the moment i'd like to start with the near eastern and african rosters.

    first will be hittite, assur, egypt and the mitanni. maybe kush (vanilla unit parts fit good) and wilusa.

    Cheers

  8. #108
    Dontfearme22's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    heres what I could find on Western Europe faction wise:


    A map of a late bronze age city state:


    Ill get more later
    good luck on the mod!

  9. #109

    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    came across these depictions of architecture and cities. the last two pics might be british and northern european

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  10. #110
    billydilly's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    @ PunitorMaximus

    Of course you can add the image

    As far as I have read, most of the armies were composed of infantry, because cavalry was so expensive.

    Wouldn't it be possible to use the current map and rename the regions. And the same goes for the factions - rename them to start with. There are a a lot of sub-factions that need to be named

    A huge project will be the Tech Tree and Building Chain.
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  11. #111
    PunitorMaximus's Avatar TWTEAW Mod Leader
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    @dontfearme: very helpful. as we have various iberian tribes to work with, this is possible!

    As far as I have read, most of the armies were composed of infantry, because cavalry was so expensive.
    the only cavalry were chariots, that were used by the warlords

    Wouldn't it be possible to use the current map and rename the regions. And the same goes for the factions - rename them to start with. There are a a lot of sub-factions that need to be named
    thats what i plan to do! as CA included so many small factions and tribes (totally awesome and realistic in my opinion) we wont have any problems with factions.

    GREECE & NEIGHBOURS:

    sparta = mycenae
    knossos = minoans (vassal of mycenae)
    athens, rhodos = vassals of myc.; names remain
    epirus = epirus afak (achaeans with illyrian influence; independent)
    macedon = dorians (war against mycenae in the north, pushing south)
    illyrians = strong alliance of 3 illyrian factions (daorsi and friends)
    pergamon = wilusa (when starting 1400 BC independent i think)
    ephesos = arzhawa
    thracian tribes = names yet to find

    thats how we'll do it with all factions.
    yes, WE! who wants to join the team?


    A huge project will be the Tech Tree and Building Chain.
    as far as i can see we can totally use the buildings of the vanilla game.
    we just have to simplify them a bit and deactivate the "modern" buildings.
    later we could concentrate on this stronger.

    For now i'll start to make a few fancy unit rosters. so i've something to show off

  12. #112
    Prince of Judah's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dontfearme22 View Post
    Prince of Judah:
    I suppose your right, but more research might be needed to know for sure
    its a general guideline anyways
    Yeah. I think the headpieces should be kept. This would distinguish them as Philistines. But maybe use bronze scale or those big Mycanean or Archaic plate armor.

    Not sure what the Nubians could be called. Kemal was the centre of power until 1502 when Egypt sacked it. But I don't know if the Egyptians stayed or left. I'll check on that later.
    Last edited by Prince of Judah; October 01, 2013 at 10:13 AM.

  13. #113

    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    Quote Originally Posted by PunitorMaximus View Post


    GREECE & NEIGHBOURS:

    sparta = mycenae
    knossos = minoans (vassal of mycenae)
    athens, rhodos = vassals of myc.; names remain
    epirus = epirus afak (achaeans with illyrian influence; independent)
    macedon = dorians (war against mycenae in the north, pushing south)
    illyrians = strong alliance of 3 illyrian factions (daorsi and friends)
    pergamon = wilusa (when starting 1400 BC independent i think)
    ephesos = arzhawa
    thracian tribes = names yet to find



    As Ephesus you can do the arzawa from 14th century but according to Homer there lived the Achaioi (Achaeans) they settled there in the 14th/13th century, in the present day they also found Mycenaean pottery there.

    Larissa: I should do the Thessalians (maybe client state of the Myceneans)
    in Apollonia there lived serveral nomadic Hellenic tribes, no illyrians influence.
    If you cant add a new faction I should do both Appolonia and Larissa (epirus) the Thessalians.

    about Pergamon wilusa is okay, note that the term wilusa is the same as trojans.

    Salamis: just keep it Cyprus, but in the 12th century Salamis was a client state of the Hittites.

    About the others you writed in the list al is okay.

    If you need more information tell it me and sorry for my english.

    If you want I can join the team for information about Greece, Anatolia and his neighbours.
    Ive also experienced with skinning but im not familiar with rome 2 and his formats etc.
    im more doing ww2 stuff, and I dont really have much time anymore because of school.
    Last edited by greekmen; October 01, 2013 at 11:23 AM.

  14. #114
    Prince of Judah's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    Okay it is Kerma. the Nubians' were centered around Kerma until it was reconquered by Egypt between 1502-1492. So the Kushites/Nubians need to be south of that.

  15. #115
    Prince of Judah's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    I noticed that someone posted about Arabian factions. Unfortunately Arabs are unknown to us before the 800s BC. Or at least by the name Arab. I'm not sure it would be proper to use the term Arab. You have many Semitic nomads. The book of Judges once refers to the Midianites as being Ishmaelites and some translations render the Hebrew as having crescent earings. But all this proves is that the ancient Israelites believed that Midianites were descended from "Ishmael." However, it is helpful because later Jewish historians would equate Ishmael with Arabs. Interestingly, identifying with Ishmael among arabs long predates Islam and even pagans clung to this myth-of-origins before the 7th century AD. So there is a slim line of evidence at the least, because Jewish and Arab cultures both agreed on this point long before it became political with the emergence of Islam. it's a possibility, but that's as far as we can prove, a possibility but not a certainty. That being said. Punitor Maxiumus, I will send you some information in PM on this topic.

    EDIT:

    Also, if you make a proto-Arabian faction, we have to consider military technology. The usage of camels as cavalry is a possibility c. 1400, but I think it is unlikely. Camels had been in usage since maybe 3000-2500, but the body of literature on military history concludes that being used in a military application begins in the 1200s. I'm not sure how to handle this. There is scarcely any indication that I am aware of. However, I can give you a semi relevant example. Going back to the whole Midianite theme, Gideon is supposed to have fought off these nomads. But There is no indication that these pastoralist raiders road their camels into battle. They were caught by surprise and demoralized by blowing trumpets and lit torches at night. Certainly some of them got on their animals (I'm assuming they were camels but i can hardly say for sure) and fled. But I believe that they would not have fought on horse back at such an early date, and this is kind of pushing the era in question as I am referring to the 1100s.

    EDIT2:

    I'd also like to add that Arab camel cavalry, usually using bows doesn't arrive until well into the Iron age, namely 1000-800. The Assyrian annals mention that an Arab king Gindibu sent camel riders to fight along side the the Levantine States, the most important being Aramaean Damascus and Israel under Ahab against the Assyrians at Karkar c. 853. It is possible that camel cavalry existed prior to this, but there is no surviving evidence of it.
    Last edited by Prince of Judah; October 01, 2013 at 03:19 PM.

  16. #116
    PunitorMaximus's Avatar TWTEAW Mod Leader
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    If you need more information tell it me and sorry for my english.
    great! both of you are in if you want

    i guess its okay to call the southern arabian tribes "Proto-Arabian Tribes". as there is no evidence for another terminology.
    while the northern arabians, in petra for example, are called the Midianites...
    just like northern europe we could make them free people of blablabla.
    f.e. teuton free people, briton free people.
    by doing this we get an incivilized, disunited europe, that brings a lot of wars against smaller tribes.
    as we all know, the one-settlement-factions tend to build more and bigger armies than the factions with more regions under their control.
    ofcourse we will give the people, of which we know sth. about, their unique names. in the southwestern region of gaul "Tribes of Artanac" for example.

    in the worst case we must call the guys living in england "South Briton Tribes".

    considering the camels and cavalry (not-chariot-cavalry) in general we could make it a very late technology. just like ironworking.

  17. #117
    Dontfearme22's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    I would like to join the team, perhaps as a researcher?
    I can look up anything I have no preference I just want to see this awesome mod made.
    Anyways, for the factions you cant find the names for, Ive worked up some possible faction names for trouble areas(first name is rome 2 vanilla name, second is mod name)
    many of these names are either based on geographic locations or site names:
    Northern Europe:
    Suebi,Lugiii-Lausitz
    Anartes-Pidhirtsi
    Roxolani-Sintashta
    Catairoi-Srubna peoples
    Sythia-the ekwozuiros(horsemen in old indo european)

    I accidently lost a lot of info so ive had to rewrite a lot of this list, but here you go:
    Britain:
    Iceni-the river temeslos peoples
    Dumonii- the river Wylye people(lot of rivers)
    Dementae- Morgannwg

    Southern Arabia:
    Mascat- Majan
    Himyar-the Thamud
    Saba-The ʿĀd peoples

    More will be coming later, we should get someone create a whole rome 2 map with new faction names, just so people can see what has been done and what hasn't.
    Last edited by Dontfearme22; October 01, 2013 at 08:27 PM.

  18. #118

    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    I'd love to join the team as a researcher, I have a fascination with the Near East cultures (mainly from the battles in the Bible), so I can dig deep for more research on people like the Amalekites, Edomites, etc.... I just really want to see this mod happen, I've always wanted a mod to feature the smaller civilizations of the Near East

  19. #119
    billydilly's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    Hi,

    here's the interactive map of Rome 2. Here it is possible to see who own what.
    http://maps.totalwar.com/


    And here are most of the factions. I have tried to add some Bronze Age names to the list.
    I got the list from this thread: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...(Most-of-them)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Britain:
    Ebdani =
    Caledones =
    Brigantes =
    Demetae =
    Dumonii =
    Iceni(Playable) =
    ----------------------------------------------

    Gaul or Gallic Tribes:
    Namnetes =
    Carnutes =
    Artrebartes =
    Treverii =
    Aedui =
    Pictones =
    Volcae =
    Vivisci =
    Helvetii =
    Massilia =
    Nori =
    Raeti = Raeti?
    Scordisci =
    Eravisci =
    Breuci =
    Boii =
    Averni(Playable) =
    Veneti = Camunni?
    ----------------------------------------------

    Spain:
    Cantabri =
    Galleaci =
    Arevaci =
    Edetani =
    Celtici =
    Lusitani =
    Turdetani =
    ----------------------------------------------

    Germany:
    Cimbri =
    Rugii =
    Gutones =
    Cherusci =
    Nervii =
    Sequani =
    Frisii =
    Lugii =
    Marcomanni =
    Seubi(Playable) =
    ----------------------------------------------

    Italy:
    Estruscan = Tyrrhenians
    Liguria =
    Syracuse = Sicels
    Insurbes =
    Rome(Playable) =
    ----------------------------------------------

    Hellenistic/Greek
    Knossos = Minoans
    Rhodos =
    Pergamon = Wilusa/Troia
    Seleucid = Assyrians / Mitanni
    Macedon(Playable) = Dorians
    Athens(Playable) = Thebes
    Egypt(Playable) = Egypt
    Sparta(Playable) = Mycenae
    Eprius(Playable) = Achaeans
    Tylis = Phrygians
    Odryssia = Thracians
    Getae = Dacia
    Bastarne =
    ----------------------------------------------

    Africa:
    Nova Carthago =
    Gaetuli =
    Libue = Libue
    Garamantia =
    Nasamones =
    Cyrenica =
    Meroe = Kush/Nubia
    Axum = Ethiopia
    Belmmyes =
    Carthage(Playable) =
    ----------------------------------------------

    Steppes:
    Aestii =
    Budini =
    Anartes =
    Catiaroi =
    Cimmeria = Cimmeria
    Siraces = Cimmeria
    Thyssagetae =
    Scythia = Scythia
    Massagetae =
    Dahae =
    Khorasmii =

    ----------------------------------------------

    Eastern:
    Bityhnia = Assuwa
    Nabatea = Amurru (Amorites)
    Himyar =
    Saba =
    Mascat =
    Parthava =
    Sardes = Arzhawa
    Cappodocia = Hittites
    Galatia = Hittites
    Cyprus = Lukka
    Qidri = Aramaeans
    Media = Kassite Empire/Babylonia
    Armenia = Hayasa
    Media Atropatene = Medes
    Baktria =
    Persia = Elam
    Arachosia =
    Dragiana =
    Sagartia =
    Aria =
    Colchis = Cholcis
    Kartili =
    Ardhan = Cadusii
    Gerrhea = Dilmun
    Ma in =
    Pontus(Playable) =
    Parthia(Playable) =
    Mascat = Magan
    Trabezos = Kaskians
    Beiphi =




    Other maps:


    Last edited by billydilly; October 02, 2013 at 08:10 AM.
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  20. #120
    Brivime's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Total War: Age of Bronze [1400 - 1200 B.C.]

    I would be strongly opposed to a "proto-arab tribes" faction.
    They should have a proper name and proper depiction, the Assyrians called the Arabs "Aribi" which is a word of Akkadian origin.

    To clarify I am from Mossul in Iraq and we have a strong Assyrian and Arab culture here.

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