Did the parthians use the cantabrian circle?

[Jackal2233]

After finally being able to play the romans thanks to Silven's mod (the broken testudo just made me avoid them previously), I noticed there were a HUGE number of auxiliary troops to regionally recruit. One of these units include the cantabrian cavalry.

Then I noticed something... they can form the cantabrian circle, a feature that I thought was missing previously when I played the Parthians. So I modded it into my game, and YAY! My horse archers now feel just like my old horse archers in other TW games!

But now I wonder if this tactic was actually used in the east or was it exclusive among Iberian tribes at the time.

[Maklodes]

Parthians had the Parthian shot! Cantabrians had the circle!

Just kidding. Parthian horse archers might have used a circular formation.

However, that said, this is more armchair tactical analysis than real history, so take it with a grain of salt, but I think that mounted javelineers have some greater advantages in using this formation compared to horse archers.

1. Mounted javelineers often use a one-handed weapon (javelin) and a shield. Horse archers use a two-handed weapon (bow), with maybe a small strap-on buckler type shield, or maybe no shield. Javelineers with their shield in their left hand, moving in a clockwise circle, always presented their shields to the enemy when they were in the part of the circle closest to the enemy. Horse archers would have a lesser advantage (if using a smaller shield) or no advantage (if fighting without a shield) from this aspect.

2. A missile could be discharged just as the horseman was galloping straight toward the enemy, adding his own velocity to the missile's velocity.

However, since an arrow is generally much faster than a javelin, the relative increase was more relevant for the javelin. If a horse galloping in a Cantabrian circle is moving a 10 m/s, and a javelineer can throw a 500 gram javelin 20 m/s from the saddle, then throwing when galloping straight toward the enemy increase the energy from 100 joules to 225 joules. If a horse archer can shoot a 50 gram arrow at 60 m/s, then loosing when galloping straight toward the enemy only increases energy from 90 joules to 122 joules.

Horse archers could still do circular shooting, but with fewer advantageous compared to javelineers, a diffuse, unpredictable "swarm" might be more advantageous than a relatively predictable circle, both in avoiding enemy missiles and in leaving enemy heavy cavalry no clear target to charge. However, maintaining command structure with such diffuse, independent forces might be difficult and require very disciplined troops.

[Jackal2233]

Hmmm, now that's interesting, thanks for this! It actually makes sense now. Guess if using M&B horse archer combat is any indication of what it's like being swarmed by horse archers on every side - a flexible, near impossible to catch and hard to target enemy to fight (Pain in the...) - then yeah, guess an unpredictable swarm would be more useful (But that would be impossible to put into the TW series unless someone finds out how to code individual behaviour into 10,000 men!)

In TW games though I mostly just use the circle when my horse archers are being shot at by enemy archers! Heh

[Maklodes]

Huh.. for some reason, the little gif I made of a Cantabrian circle isn't showing up when I view the thread normally. It just shows up in replies.

Anyway, I think both diffuse swarm tactics and more regimented tactics like a Cantabrian circle could be used by both mounted javelineers and horse archers, but I think that Cantabrian circles have a few advantages for the javelineers. Don't take it as gospel. Horse archers would get some advantage from the Cantabrian circle if they shoot their bow to the left, since the clockwise circle would always have their bows pointing out of the circle.