Why do skirmishers have 100's of Javelins?

[CatoTheYounger]

They had it right before in the original Rome. Skrimishers had limited javelins compared to archers but they were more lethal. Now it seems they have massive bundles of Javelins to rain down on the enemy. Whats the logic and why change what wasn't broken? And dont even get me started on fire Javelins to burn down city gates. Good grief.

I realy don't understand how this all went so wrong in every facet of the game.

[Rebel1776]

You also notice how they hardly kill anyone for the first couple volleys and then suddenly people start dropping like flies?

They're Archers lite, and I cant imagine a casual gamer liking having to properly use their limited ammo Javelin throwers. The thought process for them is just too complex. Complexity = bad game to most developers nowadays I guess.

[SamueleD]

100's? I'd be surprised if they had more than 10 rounds each. But I doubt it's for burning down gates, as you can do that with any unit in melee mode, they probably wanted them to stay in the fight a bit longer.

[Mahijsimo]

This need to be fixed, also the damage of archers need to be improved...

[adrastea]

Well, in reality there probably were servants and slaves who would be carrying extra ammunition for the troops (IIRC that was how Velites worked) so I don't have problem with skirmishers having more ammo then they themselves are physically capable of. But ATM they seem to be carrying a bit too much, and the archers far too few.

[Rebel1776]

Bows arent as influential in combat as people seem to believe, especially when shields are supposed to matter.

However there is a bigger underlying problem here that not many people want to address because they believe, what I believe to be, CA's obvious LIE.

Why is it that Javelins, for example, wont kill many people in the first couple volleys, but then once you hit volley 3-5 people start dropping like flies regardless of shield positioning? This was NEVER the case in Rome I, this encouraged flanking to cause casualties to heavy shield bearers.

CA claims that this is still the case, but I observe otherwise. The Velite's and their counterparts having more overall ammo is likely a side-effect of a more troubling gameplay mechanic change. A transition to "traditional" RTS games where units have a healthbar that you have to slowly beat down. Take notice that TW games used to have strictly 1 HP and their melee defense and shields were SEPARATE modifiers that prevented them from dying too fast. I dont have the software or equipment to make videos that could give me supporting evidence in Rome 2. So if someone can, or already has, I would encourage that its done so that this troubling theory is officially disproved......or worse so....proven for the world to see.

[Jack Lusted]

Javelin units have 10 ammo per soldier, though bear in mind that is combined into a unit ammo pool at the start of battle so as a unit takes casualties it will take them longer to use up that pool as less javelins being fired by volleys.

Shields do still give bonuses to the front and left, and now the bonuses are split between melee defence and armour.

[redxavier]

They start with a lot (10), but the ammuninition becomes excessive due to the tech tree. One of the first you get as the Romans gives you 50% extra, so that means from early in your game you have velites lasting almost an entire battle with 15.

So the obvious solution would be to reduce the starting amount to something like 4-6 or reduce the bonus given by the technology. I don't believe any skirmisher unit should ever have more than 10.

[Darth the Great]

It would be way better if they were designed to throw a limited amount of javelins, then charge the enemy. Not sure though if that was their actual use in ancient battles.

[SinerAthin]

It would be way better if they were designed to throw a limited amount of javelins, then charge the enemy. Not sure though if that was their actual use in ancient battles.

It was their purpose.

Get close, throw their javelins; then either
A) Charge!
or
B) Run away like sissies...

Javelins were not really used as primary weapons, as you didn't have dedicated and specialized javelin throwers, but as supplements to the soldier's arsenal. A soldier or warrior would have his role, and then the javelin would be just a bonus to throw at the enemy. Javelins were big, heavy, and limited in numbers, and were generally just thrown in before the fight started. Very effective, but you'd typically also bring another weapon as your main

[[N2]Kami]

I don't like how HP was implemented. It makes few first shot from missile unit completely wasted, especially javelin man, with short range like that, they can throw 2 shot at least before they have to run back behind infantry line.

[CatoTheYounger]

Actualy the Velites would soften the enemy in a skirmish phase and once their javelins were used up they would retreat into the lines and to the back of the army. Then when the lines were engaged they were free to harass the flanks. They were usefull to harass the enemy when they were already commited.

Lusted explanation makes sense but it sounds like there are a total number of javelins for the unit and when men die there Javelins are used by others in the unit. So they end up firing Javelins for a very long time before running out. Dont think i care for that. i liked old Velite style. And you definately want to use them the hisorical way because they cant stand up in mele unless used to flank engaged units once there Javelins are gone.

[[N2]Kami]

double...

[JaM]

guys, it was common thing to pick javelins from the ground and throw it back. Not all javelins were designed like pillum to be unusable once thrown.. skirmisher's javelins were simple, and could be returned back with ease, and both sides actually did that... increased number of missiles for javelinmen portrays that, as well with possibility to rearm from other units.. normally, skirmisher would carry up to 7 javelins with him (Velites), anyway they could take more and leave them on the ground so they could pick them up once needed anytime during skirmishing phase.