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Thread: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 01/06/2014] -patch8.1 compatible!

  1. #101

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 9/26/2013]

    Did more testing:
    Imo, the mod is superb overall, and my only feedback regards unit stats/costs/upkeep playbalancing.

    1) Molossian Wardogs: upkeep is roughly 220% Roman and other barbarian equivalents. Are they worth it? From their stats, don't think so.

    2) Bow units: have noticed that missle attack for Archers (vanilla) and the 2 Illyrian versions are reduced to 13--with slingers at 12. Range of bows increased to 145 (slingers retain vanilla range of 150--but have roughly twice the ammo). This makes archers pretty useless compared to slingers.

    3) Illyro-Italian Bow Auxiliaries: from their stats they're basically weakish Hastati with bows instead of pila, right?
    I've got a bunch in my armies now, but haven't tested them yet in battle.
    Are they supposed to be used as skirmishers?
    They're also very expensive upkeep; compared to a real sword melee unit like Illyro-Ital Inf Cohorts.

    3) Veteran Illyrian Inf: I like the regular Illyrians; but the veteran version upkeep seems overpriced for their stats.. Are they worth it?

    4) Grosphomachoi: one of my fave units from RTRVII. Their stats and upkeep seem lackluster compared to vanilla Agranian Axemen. Are they worth it?
    My notion is that Epirus needs at least a few units that as a cost-effectiveness package are superior to the other Greek factions. At present only vanilla Agranians (and DardanianBondsCav) fit that bill.

    5) Sibunetes: like a frailer, cheaper version of TheurosHop's. I really like this unit!

    6) Illyrian Levy Foot: at first I thought these were too inexpensive...but they really help as adjunct support during the first 40+ turns when money is a real issue. Under missle fire they die like flies.. At mid-game I've retired almost all for AgranianAxes and the like.

    7) Illyrian Archers: dirt cheap cost + upkeep. But that range of only 100, plus only paltry ammo, made them seem a bad deal compared to vanilla Slingers. Only traines a few..then disbanded them. With range of say 125, and a few more arrows, they'd have a lot more appeal...

    8) Chaonian Peltastai: presumably the Epirote alternative to RoyalPeltasts; but roughly 200% the upkeep. Like the vanilla version they have v.high armor (in a skirmisher unit?), but sl. poorer stats, like morale. As they stand, a bad deal; and certainly not worth the expense and food costs of their required structure (Skirmisher IV).

    9) Illyrian Light Cav: with sl. better stats than the mid-game vanilla Skirmisher Cav, their upkeep is roughly 150%. Once Dardanian Bondsmen Cav become avail, the Light Cav. become obsolete (for their upkeep cost). Perhaps reduce upkeep to just over vanilla SkirmishersCavs'.

    10) Dardanian Bondsmen Cav: one of my fave EEP units. Excellent package of heavy skirmisher cav.

    Am close to accessing lvl IV barracks. Will let you know how those units test.

    In all, playing that EEP campaign last night was so far the pinnacle of enjoyment so far playing Rome2. Excellent fun! Thank you, and may the gods smile upon you for your magnificent creation. Thank you also for standing firm in your decision to not imitate Radious by creating fantasy units with dirt cheap upkeep.

    Once you finish up EEP, what comes next? The other Illyrian factions?

  2. #102

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 9/26/2013]

    Ok, got the Royal Barracks (IV) up and running. Here's my (unasked) 2-cents:

    1) The vanilla units are totally solid--and useful--in terms of their cost:benefit angles: Hellenic Royal Cav, Hellenic Royal Guards, & Aspis Companion Cav. They're affordable, upkeep-wise; and beat all comparable tier III units.

    2) The Chaonian Pelastai: corresponds to Mac/Egypt Royal Peltast unit. Unlike the Mac/Egy unit, which is avail at lvl III, the ChaonianPelt is at lvl. IV. The RoyalPelt has equiv combat stats--lower attack, def, armor; but higher health--and probably would go down 1:1. But player can afford to keep 2 Royals for 1 Chaonian...
    Conclusion: either make Chaonians a bit tougher to justify their super-unit upkeep; or tone them down slightly, make them a bit cheaper, and let them be accessed via lvl.III skirm bldg.

    3) Taulantian Noble Guard: these bad boys are on par stat-wise with the Roman Praetorian Guard, and to a lesser extent by the other elite sword units (e.g., Oathsworn, Heroic Nobles). But upkeep is >200%!
    Conclusion: either make Taulantians a bit tougher (health 45, etc.) to justify their super-unit upkeep cost; or tone them down slightly, make them a bit cheaper so they can be afforded.

    4) Chaonian Agema: are roughly equiv to Heroes of Sparta stat-wise; if one could compare hoplites with pikemen.
    Conclusion: why even bother with a super pike unit, when Hellenic Royal Guards do the job at 40% the cost?

    5) Molossian Shieldsworn: are roughly equiv to Heroes of Sparta stat-wise--except at 225% upkeep. I like hoplites and so have two armies with 2 each to see how they fare in battle. Cut their upkeep by 30% and they'd still just be icing (not main course).

    6) Thesprotian Cthonic Champs: another super-elite hoplite unit; that would most probably take down a MolossianShieldsworn 1:1! Due to my weakness for Hops, I've got a few of these guys under the colors to see how they do. Perhaps up their health to 45 to justify their super-unit price.

    7) Also, upping purchase price of all your elites to >1,000, in keeping with vanilla pricing, would seem in order. Especially the units with high armor--as that's what really cost big bucks back in the day.

    8) All in all, the RoyalB (IV) offers up yet more variety and enjoyment for fans of the EEP. The vanilla epirote units are those that will see common use. It would be nice to see improved versions of Italo-Illyrian Cohorts & Hoplites--to become new frontline units for Epirus, to enable parity with tier IV barbarian, Roman, and Asian armies. The high cost of the new epirote elites will prove prohibitive to their becoming more than just icing--or stiffener, rather--to tier II an III Epirote armies.
    Fortunately, vanilla tierIV cavalry units can replace CitizenCav and the EEP Thessalians; and vanilla Hellenic Royals can replace vanilla Pikemen.
    ................

    I have a request: is there any way you could add Cretan Archers and/or Rhodian Slingers to the Epiroe TOE? Perhaps recruitable as aux. type troops through the lvl IV SkirmBarracks?
    Last edited by Hieronymos; October 07, 2013 at 08:15 PM.

  3. #103

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 10/11/2013] -betapatch4 compatible

    10/11/2013
    Version 1.0.5 Released
    New:

    • Hades Temple building chain added. Gives bonuses to defense, morale, and province happiness (additional notes on each building bonuses follow the unit section).
    • Thesprotian Cthsonic Champions only recruitable from Rank-5 Hades temple (Necromonteion).

    Updated:

    • Illyro-Italian troops now unlocked by 'Tactical Flexibility' technology reform
    • Chaonian Peltastai formation changed to standard infantry (was missile_inf), should allow them to fair better in combat.

    Fixed:

    • Typos fixed
    Last edited by Aelexander; October 11, 2013 at 03:27 AM.

  4. #104

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 9/26/2013]

    Hieronymos: Thanks for the feedback!

    Regarding the upkeep on elite units, it was more of an eyeball issue, I was concerned that slightly improved stats would encourage super-stacks in the late game and these are really only supposed to represent the cream of the crop with respect to more generic units (ie; only a few per army). I can see reworking their stats and upkeep toward some happy medium, then developing some truly super-elite units with limited quantities (White/Bronze-shield hypsapists come to mind).

    The dogs are overpriced to avoid spamming, I've seen players just make dog/elephant stacks and frankly these units were priced with respect to that unfortunate stat. I can definitely see toning it down somewhat.

    With respect to the Illyro-Italians and other units that reflect external cultural influences, their stats are deliberately worse and their upkeep higher to address two issues;
    1. These are watered-down copies of troop-types perfected by other cultures so it makes some sense that they'd cost the copycat culture more for slightly lesser quality (efficiency)
    2. Despite the cool-factor of the concept, I don't want this unit-pack to turn into a bunch of cherry-picked units from neighboring factions. If you want real Hastati/legionary Cohorts go play Rome? These guys just let you play out the 'what-if' scenario of a strong Epirus that has learned some lessons in troop flexibility from it's Western neighbor.

    That said, I may continue that particular unit chain, perhaps offering some upper-tier options for the late game. It's a little tough without being able to import custom meshes tho, since I don't want reskinned Romans running around with my Greek armies.

    Suggestions are definitely welcome.

  5. #105

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 10/11/2013] -betapatch4 compatible

    Current download version 1.0.4 for me is it not to be 1.0.5 ?

    Thanks.

  6. #106

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 10/11/2013] -betapatch4 compatible

    Woops. The dangers of posting updates at 3AM.

    here is the correct link: http://www.mediafire.com/download/ie...q3z/EEP105.zip

    Enjoy.

  7. #107

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 10/11/2013] -betapatch4 compatible

    Tinkered with some stats, not enough to warrant a new release, but if you downloaded a version this morning, just grab a new copy.

  8. #108

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 10/11/2013] -betapatch4 compatible

    Thanks Aelexander was really missing this mod hopefully now i can use it again with patch 4 much thanks;P

  9. #109

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 10/11/2013] -betapatch4 compatible

    Be aware that some people have reported issues with the building chain for the starting provinces (ie; says all your buildings are non-faction, preventing upgrades). Just grab a fresh copy of the mod and you should be fine. Had something to do with a misnamed table. It doesn't show up for everyone but make sure you are up-to-date just to be on the safe side.

  10. #110
    neoptolemos's Avatar Breatannach Romanus
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    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 10/11/2013] -betapatch4 compatible

    Aelexander I was just wondering how did you come up with "cthonic" units?
    Quem faz injúria vil e sem razão,Com forças e poder em que está posto,Não vence; que a vitória verdadeira É saber ter justiça nua e inteira-He who, solely to oppress,Employs or martial force, or power, achieves No victory; but a true victory Is gained,when justice triumphs and prevails.
    Luís de Camões

  11. #111

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 10/11/2013] -betapatch4 compatible

    This new version makes my game on random factions during the end turn. It only has 2 conflicts on mod manager. Anyone know why this might be happening. I have quite a few mods, but like I said, there are only two conflicts (Carthageunits mod and OSGreekv7)

  12. #112

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 10/11/2013] -betapatch4 compatible

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthorgasm View Post
    This new version makes my game on random factions during the end turn. It only has 2 conflicts on mod manager. Anyone know why this might be happening. I have quite a few mods, but like I said, there are only two conflicts (Carthageunits mod and OSGreekv7)
    First, re-download the mod and use the latest EEP105.pack file. Start a new game and immediately end the turn. If you are still getting crashes, do not close the window, if possible please note which faction crashes your game. I'm guessing (if it's a Hellenic faction) it has something to do with the AI considering the new building chain. I had these issues during testing but was able to resolve them and those changes are reflected in the current build.

    Mod Manager will also tell you what tables conflict between the various packs. I would imagine that Mr. Os mod provides a custom projectile.missile weapon table a la 'Fire at will' javelins, which might be the source of the conflict. As of EEP105, the AP values for javelins has been changed to reflect the changes in CA's latest beta patch (patch 4).

  13. #113

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 10/11/2013] -betapatch4 compatible

    I had problems loading Athens campaign earlier would crash when the loading bar was complete.

    Epirus campaign loaded fine though.

  14. #114

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 10/11/2013] -betapatch4 compatible

    Your mod is first rate Alexander! My feedback about the elite unit upkeep was in light of being able as Rome, for example, to field a full stack of Praetorian Gds/Cav in the late game. Not much can stand against that. To be honest, haven't played into the late game often, and so don't know what it'd be like to fight a tier4 Seleucid or Parthian army. But from their stats, and the fact that the AI tends to build the best units it can--Epirus needs to have tier4 parity. And that means having in addition to the 3 vanilla tier4 units, a tier4 swords unit, and 1-2 Hypaspists (or equivalents).

    As they stand at v1.04, the EEP elites are too expensive to maintain more than 1-2 per stack.

    Your aguement about the Illyro-Roman Swords not out-Roman-ing Roman sword units is entirely valid. However, the devs live in an alternate universe where units like Praetorian Cav prove that Romans can produce perhaps the best heavy melee cav in the game. So where does EEP fit into this universe? Thus having EEP sword units with stas&upkeep superior or on par with, for example, the Socii Extraordinarii, would not be amiss.

    Also, keep in mind that tier4 barracks and units arriving in a faction, by its very nature strongly implies an empire of sorts, with the resources and income to support that infrastructure. Epirus historically never made it to that point, thus all high tier Epirote units are pretty much in the realm of 'what if'.

  15. #115

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 10/11/2013] -betapatch4 compatible

    Quote Originally Posted by curtis11 View Post
    I had problems loading Athens campaign earlier would crash when the loading bar was complete.

    Epirus campaign loaded fine though.
    Any luck with your campaign after loading up the latest version?

  16. #116

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 10/11/2013] -betapatch4 compatible

    Yea deleted all Hades building references and now its fine.

    Thanks

  17. #117

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 10/11/2013] -betapatch4 compatible

    Getting up on that 'ol soapbox again...

    Any chance of:
    1) Beefing up some/all Illyrian factions rosters with some of the fab EEP units?
    2) Giving the Epirotes access to Cretan Archers and Rhodian Slingers (contingents of which fought under Pyrrhus in Italy)?

  18. #118

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 10/11/2013] -betapatch4 compatible

    Getting up on that 'ol soapbox again...

    Any chance of:
    1) Beefing up some/all Illyrian factions rosters with some of the fab EEP units?
    2) Giving the Epirotes access to Cretan Archers and Rhodian Slingers (contingents of which fought under Pyrrhus in Italy)?

  19. #119

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 10/11/2013] -betapatch4 compatible

    Quote Originally Posted by Hieronymos View Post
    Getting up on that 'ol soapbox again...

    Any chance of:
    1) Beefing up some/all Illyrian factions rosters with some of the fab EEP units?
    2) Giving the Epirotes access to Cretan Archers and Rhodian Slingers (contingents of which fought under Pyrrhus in Italy)?
    1) Yes, I will be looking into expanding the unit permissions to these factions & buildings as well as updating the CAI build tables to allow them to show up in AI armies.

    2) That is an easy change, so I will look into this for the next version.

  20. #120

    Default Re: Epirote Expansion Project (EEP) [Updated 10/11/2013] -betapatch4 compatible

    That's a great looking Unit Roster. Great work, keep it up. I can't wait to start a new Campaigne as Epirus, i've just finished the work to make your mod compatible with STIM (altered Stats, etc.) ...

    I've found a Typos in your 1.0.5 Version: The "Thesprotian Chthsonic Champions" were missing their appropriate Thorax_Hoplites-UnitCard. You've missed an "S" for Hoplites in the "Unit variants tables"-"Unitcard section", not sure if it's already reported, but better twice than never

    good luck!

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