Heirs of Atlantis II (is back!!!) Downloads Available Here

**Demokritos** · September 22, 2006, 01:50 PM

Judging by those screenshots, Arbaces, the Demotikoi were not only skirmishers with no shields, but also a troop type that could fight in close combat with both spears and axes? That must be rare - which I like lot! Uniqueness brings special interest and joy into the faction, which increases the playability of the whole game, since it becomes a novelty to switch faction with which to play. Good!
Just one remark about their appearance. These Demotikoi were lower class levies, you say. That means they were poor. And the Kometai were middle class who could even afford to own horses. Yet the Demotikoi and the Kometai come out dressed in a very similar fashion. So the latter did not show their higher status in a more marked way, like with jewellery of some kind or more embroidered shirts to display their wealth or something? I mean, on the ground without their weaponry little seems to tell these troop types, these men from different classes apart. When it comes to historical societies in the world such a thing would be very unusual. I wonder if some sign of wealth would not do the Kometai some good as becoming more special and the Getai lineup more authentic? But you're the historical expert in this particular case, Arbaces. What say you?

**florin80** · September 22, 2006, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Demokritus

Judging by those screenshots, Arbaces, the Demotikoi were not only skirmishers with no shields, but also a troop type that could fight in close combat with both spears and axes? That must be rare - which I like lot!

AFAIK they are intended to be something like the hastati as a unit type. Using their javelins before the charge and then a spear(instead of the gladius) for close combat. The axe is there just for graphics. It will not be used in combat.

Just one remark about their appearance. These Demotikoi were lower class levies, you say. That means they were poor. And the Kometai were middle class who could even afford to own horses. Yet the Demotikoi and the Kometai come out dressed in a very similar fashion. So the latter did not show their higher status in a more marked way, like with jewellery of some kind or more embroidered shirts to display their wealth or something? I mean, on the ground without their weaponry little seems to tell these troop types, these men from different classes apart. When it comes to historical societies in the world such a thing would be very unusual. I wonder if some sign of wealth would not do the Kometai some good as becoming more special and the Getai lineup more authentic? But you're the historical expert in this particular case, Arbaces. What say you?

That may be a good point, but I don`t know what else can there be added for the Kometai. And you have to agree that they look very cool the way they currently are. Maybe a torc at their neck? But I`m not sure it will be visible.

**Arbaces** · September 22, 2006, 03:20 PM

The Kometai where not much wealthier then the common people. The clothing is somehow dirtyer for the Demotikoi. I'll come back with more about this through the descriptions. Generally speaking, as far as the sources that exist tell, the Dacians were somehow simple people so even though there would be a difference between classes it wouldn't have been shown through jewlery. The Demotikoi Lucian mentions about and the Kometai Dio Cassius writes about might differ in the following way: Demotikoi = poor free men who owned a few oxes and a few animals ( free peasants) + slaves (owned by nobles or by kometai) . Kometai = those richer among free men, though not noble, who were landowners and even owned slaves. I hope you got my point.

The axes was used too, esspecially by peasantry because could be both a tool and a weapon. This is shown through the model of the unit, though I have chosen javelin and spear as main weapons.

Arbaces.

**Demokritos** · September 23, 2006, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by florin80

AFAIK they are intended to be something like the hastati as a unit type. Using their javelins before the charge and then a spear(instead of the gladius) for close combat. The axe is there just for graphics. It will not be used in combat.
That may be a good point, but I don`t know what else can there be added for the Kometai. And you have to agree that they look very cool the way they currently are. Maybe a torc at their neck? But I`m not sure it will be visible.

I was wondering about the spear-AND-axe thing, how it could be implemented in the game. Still looks pretty unusual. Fine by me!
Yes, I agree, the Kometai look very cool as they are. Side by side to the Demotikoi in great numbers on the battlefield, however, taking into account the "clone factor" (which MTW2 will remedy to some degree), I'm afraid their coolness might disappear a bit, if their uniqueness is not strengthened in some way. I was just thinking of some piece of ornate silver disc fastened to their breast strap. Surely they were known to wear things like that? A small detail like that could do a lot of difference (I'm a bit of an artist myself, I have been told, but with pencils and paper).
How about you trying this idea out, Arbaces? Place a small disc there, which couldn't take that long, and compare the result on the field together with the Demotikoi with the way they look as a group now. Keep the best looking lineup, whatever you find that to be.
Just a suggestion of mine. It's your mod and you wanted feedback. I won't be sorry if you stick to your current lineup. It's already refreshed this barbarian faction a LOT.

**Arbaces** · September 23, 2006, 07:56 AM

YES! I got your point. Here is a teaser for Peltastai I worked on last night, tried to give them a Dacian feeling. They're based on Titus Andronicus' Peltast.

They are WIP too, of course. I will try to improve the Kometai too but I will release everything next week-end or around this time, since right now I'm traveling to my sister at Suceava who has just given birth

. I'm an uncle!!!

Arbaces.

**Demokritos** · September 23, 2006, 08:37 AM

Wonderful! I particularly liked the design on their cloaks. You have just made a wish come true!

**ZuluKingOfTheDwarfPeople** · September 23, 2006, 08:50 AM

I thought the Basques were the heirs to Atlantis

impressive screenshots...

**Demokritos** · September 23, 2006, 10:50 AM

Missed the text beneath the last screenshots - congrat to your "unclehood" (smile)!

Came to think something about the low class Demotikoi being dirtier: does it mean that you will make their white dress a tad more "greyish", making the Kometai stand out a little bit more as a finer class?
Interesting tactical options with the Demotikoi. Carrying spears as their final weapon they should have some anti-cavalry advantage, too, right?

**Salvor Hardin** · September 24, 2006, 07:52 AM

From uncle to uncle: congratulations ! And prepare yourself to quit modding when the boy is three years older

. On topic: those peltats look very realistic, man. You are outdoing yourself

**LegionairosMatt** · September 24, 2006, 08:18 AM

will this work with Candelarius ER mod??

If not would i be able to use -mod:switch to use it??

EDIT: Congradulations (or is it congratulations??)!!!

**Locky** · September 26, 2006, 02:25 AM

Ohh, looks very good.

It's nice to know someone wants to Improve, the Dacians/Thracians, which i find rather interesting peoples.

**Arbaces** · September 30, 2006, 03:22 PM

Ok lads,

First of all thanks for your previous good thoughts and understanding.

Secondly, I released the three new units!! Hopefully everything is archieved properly and you won't have troubles installing them (I'm as tired as a dead man right now so mistakes could have been made when packing the files).

For the next build of the mod I finished the following:
-adding my Cognomen mod and many additional Dacian names
-adding Helis and Kallatis on the map
-increased prices for generals, agents, forts and watchtowers
-added loyality succesfully for Rome
-made the 3 new units

Left to do:
-Strat Map banner for Dacians
-new description for Dacians
-add new skins for spies, diplomats and assasins on strat map
-add new intro map for dacians
-finish the loyalty system so that all factions can use it
-rename the senate

Arbaces.

**florin80** · September 30, 2006, 03:29 PM

Congratulation! The new units look splendid. Great stuff! And you managed to make the demotikoi to look clearly different from the komatai after all.

EDIT: Cool looking sig too.

**Salvor Hardin** · October 01, 2006, 04:27 AM

Downloading right now. I am very happy today, as these are indeed good news...Although I willl have to say good-bye to the two entries on DMB i had reserved for emergencies.

.

**Demokritos** · October 01, 2006, 01:41 PM

You're outdoing yourself, Arbaces! LOOK at this faction now! SO much more original and interesting than the one it replaces! These guys really seem wild and unruly, coming forth like a true barbarian menace. Other factions - beware!

PERFECT changes to the Demotikoi and the Peltastai, IMO. Their social status is very clear now. Makes for a lineup with greater authenticity and "life". Ergo, a campaign with more fun, whether you play with or against the Dacians.

Great contribution, Arbaces!