Romans in open field forced to fight like barbarians

[CatoTheYounger]

We all generaly know this about RTW2 but playing as the Romans i find it maddening.

Because you can't use fire at will and your legions wont discharge their pilum unless they charge at an individual unit you are forced to individualy click and target each enemy unit you want your individual units to fire at. They then break off in full charge and throw their pilum losing any dicipline and disrupting any attempt to form a line. Because i am individualy clicking every unit of my first two lines of 5 hastati and five principes i have no time to watch any of the battle and have to click away from birdseye view. And with no formed lines because of the chraging and no guard mode it's one big chaotic scrum in which i have no time to use proper tactics. You can of course not discharge your pilum but that takes away a powerfull weapon to widdle down incoming armies.

And with the speed of battles and the relentless clicking of units that cant be put in guard mode and will be even less formed in lines if you charge them you have no time to watch the battle up close or even use proper flanking tactics. I have had problems in the open field in Cisalpine Gaul where i bring one Roman legion and one Soci legion. But often fighting 2-3 armies of Gauls and forced to fight like Barbarians instead of an armored mechanized front i end up trying to beat the barbarinas playing their own game. All you see is units flashing and you are clicking at high speeds and men are shaking and routing here and there. No sence of Roman vs Barbarian and no way for Romans to use Roman tactics. And with higher barbarian attack ratings it makes it difficult to progress and get better in battles and improve as a player. With almost no tactics and ultra fast battle spoeeds with no real battle lines i feel like there is not much more that i can do.

I seriously hope this is worked on by the mods because CA seems more intent to fix the bugs with no comments toward the bad design. I realy want to keep playing this but only the walled siege battles have been any good and even the open field battles are just a formless mess. Somebody help!

[vonDuus]

Workaround:

There is a command called something like "slow attack". If your troops are grouped in a line, you can ctrl+rightclick a target, and the line will move forward, and the troops will throw their pila when at proper range.

The downside is of course that they move slowly.

[OCTAVIUS VATCO 22]

It's all gone hollywood.... gladiator.... that opening battle scene... and of course, the Spartacus series...

[chris10]

This is one of the main issues with battles ...
compared to RTW this has gone terribly wrong
Roman cohorts usually fought in block forwarding their big shield building something similar a shieldwall using the short gladius to stab through the gap between their own shield and the shield of their neighbor while the lines behind forwarded their shields to provide support and avoid the line before them to be pushed back...
if a legionary fell the one behind him made 2 steps forward to occupy his position and close the gap
thats how they maintained unit cohesion...
in R2 everything ends up in a huge blob...its depressing as it is completely uselss to position the units in any battle order...once the enemy clashes its blob time

[Jackal2233]

Yeah I'm still waiting for the fire-at-will javelin mod to work right before I even think of playing the Romans. Very disappointing so far, same with the poorly implemented Greek hoplite phalanx, and the pike phalanx glitches up. Parthia was a good faction for me to play except for the still stupid skirmish AI which has been a problem since the very beginning.

[wulfgar610]

CA might be right about this. The choices were charge, counter-charge or receive opponents charge at the halt. What little evidence there is suggests they didn't throw pila if they stood to receive a charge. To throw their pila efficiently they had go into open order. This is sucide if the opponent charges too quickly. This last bit never being a problem when fighting hoplites.

At Vesontio Caesar tells us they discarded their pila and drew their gladius because the Suebi closed on them too quickly.

[agent 47]

CA might be right about this. The choices were charge, counter-charge or receive opponents charge at the halt. What little evidence there is suggests they didn't throw pila if they stood to receive a charge. To throw their pila efficiently they had go into open order. This is sucide if the opponent charges too quickly. This last bit never being a problem when fighting hoplites.

At Vesontio Caesar tells us they discarded their pila and drew their gladius because the Suebi closed on them too quickly.

Well as it is they are hardly in open order when they charge and throw pila. They are tightly squeezed together and clipping.

I don't see a difference then in letting them throw pila stationary. Even if it isn't documented, its plausible and makes for good gameplay.

[Jackal2233]

^ Check Battle of Watling street

[Gaizokubanou]

Unit cohesion is lacking in Rome 2 but the entire army only blob out of control if you give poor orders... like ordering everyone to attack one target. Otherwise formations are still manageable because how easy it is in Rome 2 to pull units out of melee combat. It is still too blobby but it's far cry to say that it's all mindless action with no room for "proper flanking", whatever the hell that is.

And now people are even complaining about fixing bugs and technical issues first? That's a sound priority. CA really botched Rome 2's release but really, that's what you are having issue with?

[Sir_Red]

The fact that this game is called "Rome" yet the Romans fight like barbarians in fancy dress is ridiculous. There is nothing Roman about the way Rome fights in this game, it should be the most important part of a game geared around Roman era warfare

[OCTAVIUS VATCO 22]

it's far cry to say that it's all mindless action with no room for "proper flanking", whatever the hell that is.

That is a very essential battle winning tactic.

[KR153]

True, after a while there´s pretty much no difference in the fighting style... Not only a visual but even more a tactical flaw. Even roman troops should differ a bit in their styles, depending if standard or elite.

[wulfgar610]

Check Battle of Watling street

It was the Romans that took the initiative and charged in column, not the Britons.

[OCTAVIUS VATCO 22]

CA mentioned in the Battle for Carthage walkthrough video that they wanted to portray the Roman meat grinder style of fighting. This blob thing is nor it.

[daniu]

Empire:
TWC: melee combat sucks! Only the first line fights, my numerical superiority doesn't mean a thing!

Rome 2:
TWC: melee combat sucks! My units break formation so more than the first line fights, it's a disgrace!

[Armageddonn]

Empire:
TWC: melee combat sucks! Only the first line fights, my numerical superiority doesn't mean a thing!

Rome 2:
TWC: melee combat sucks! My units break formation so more than the first line fights, it's a disgrace!

This actually makes sense...but still at least phalanx should hold formation

[Sar1n]

You should have a choice between holding formation, slowly wearing down the enemy, and all out melee. Both tactics have their place in battle, and this was one of features of guard mode in previous titles. Why the hell was it taken out?

[SonOfCrusader76]

The fact that this game is called "Rome" yet the Romans fight like barbarians in fancy dress is ridiculous. There is nothing Roman about the way Rome fights in this game, it should be the most important part of a game geared around Roman era warfare

Exactly! The game is called 'Rome 2 - Total War' (or at least it should be :p ) yet the titular faction don't fight anything like they did historically.

You should have a choice between holding formation, slowly wearing down the enemy, and all out melee. Both tactics have their place in battle, and this was one of features of guard mode in previous titles. Why the hell was it taken out?

Who knows? CA (perhaps forced by Sega) have made some very strange design decisions in this game.

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

If you put your romans ins a diffence line 4 rows deep, than they will fight in order without much confusion, the same stands for phalanxes. If you go offense it is only natural that there is a lot more chaos.