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Thread: Archi's Rome II Mods - Discontinued

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  1. #1

    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    Changing the coding to improve AI and set construction times longer is all very impressive but i feel that i won't be torn away from Magnar mod because it offers inserted abilities as well as coding changes. For example, with magnar I can finally use my Roman Legions with Pilums or have real roman reforms up to the Empire age.

    I of course will give this a test but I really hope some talented modders like yourself start doing a Roma Surrectum 2 type scale of mod where everything is overhauled. Only then will this game be a true competitor to the original.

  2. #2
    Archimonday's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    Update 0.81 Uploaded. Check Workshop or OP for changes.

  3. #3
    Archimonday's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2



    Update 0.83 Uploaded.

    CAI Task Management reworked, my first long look at CAI in quite a few interations.

    Cultural Aversion also edited, each culture will now have more diverse diplomatic events associated with different cultures. I hope to use this later on to increase the scope, to individual city states or empires, and make the diplomatic world truthfully diverse.

  4. #4
    Archimonday's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    Going to test and work on Patch 7 Beta support tonight. We'll see what happens.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    Restored Patch 7 Beta Compatibility. Check OP for attachments. Workshop version also updated.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    This post is going to just be a short paragraph or two on where my thoughts are currently headed. Perhaps most important right now, is expanding the unit rosters for the playable factions in the game. Too many of them, have very weak, early game unit rosters which do not allow for balanced armies. This will be changing. Factions like Carthage and others, who have hard times defeating other countries will have more variety of units to select from, even without a Level 1 military structure. In addition, as Military and City structures are upgraded, they will begin to phase out older units in exchange for newer ones. For instance:

    By the time of the games beginning in 272 B.C. Rome was well established in its transition to the Manipular system. However, even Polybius notes that Roman units were still equipped with the Hasta; the Roman infantry spear used in the earlier centuries by their then hoplite formations. Then, around the time of the Second Punic War, weapons were adopted from Iberian tribes, and the new Manipular Roman Army took on its familiar form. To this end, the mod will eventually feature two types of Hastati, and Principes. The first will be recruitable at the very start, they will be Hastati and Principes which use the Hasta, and they will fill the first two tiers of the Roman Army. Along with Rorarii, Levy, and Equites for Cavalry. All of these units will be recruitable at the start of the Campaign.

    Then as a player constructs buildings, going from Level I Roman Cities and Military Structures, to Level II structures, the Hastati and Principes will transition to the Gladius, Rorarii will be phased out of the recruitment pool, and Levy will be replaced with Velites. This sort of evolving Unit Roster will eventually be added to all of the Factions in the game, as the mod becomes more in-depth.

    A fourth tier of Infantry will be created, encompassing those unarmored, light melee infantry, such as Rorarii, Mob, and various other types of militia. These units will have their stats, costs, and abilities adjusted, and will be the cheapest form of infantry which you can train.

    I will continue to tweak the Campaign AI to find a perfect balance for their aggression, and diplomatic actions. Currently I find the CAI very aggressive, not a terrible thing, but too much aggressiveness leaves the player clamoring for control, especially with nations like Carthage, who's claims are all divided at the beginning of the campaign. I will also look to increase the Campaign AI's priority towards aiding the player in allied, or vassal wars.

    Civil Wars will be removed for now, or at least made very rare. Patch 7 beta gave us a little control over their occurance, and I will be editing it to make civil wars less likely, if not eliminated altogether until I can return to them, hopefully when we have more control over how they work.

    I'm looking to increase the variety, and requirements of technology and buildings, to make them dependent on one another. This means that in order to construct certain buildings you will need specific research, and to conduct specific research you will need specific buildings. Research and its effects will also be broadened, so that research feels like a considerable investment, rather than a small buff.

    I'll make more posts as time goes on like this. Expect small updates for the next month or so, until I managed to release a major update with all this experimental stuff. Next update will finally included Army and Navy Cost and Upkeep tweaks. Stay tuned!

  7. #7
    Libertus
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    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    If I may carry this quote over from the patch 7 beta thread:

    When it came to Instant Navies, the big issue was that the penalty for disembarking from Ship to Sea was a full sacrifice of all movement points. This meant that AI Armies would get stuck on the beach, and would never advance. Just by simply lowering the movement point cost of the transition, I was able to allow AI armies to move, even if only a miniscule amount, away from the beach, and allow them to continue on their missions rather than become bugged.
    How did you achieve this, is there a value in the db for transition costs?

  8. #8
    Archimonday's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    Yes there is. You can modify the number of movement points that are sacrificed during the transition.

  9. #9
    Libertus
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    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    Found them - thx!

    campaign_variables_tables/campaign_variables/pathfinding_sea_to_land_beach_transition_action_point_cost
    campaign_variables_tables/campaign_variables/pathfinding_land_to_sea_beach_transition_action_point_cost

  10. #10
    Archimonday's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    Over the day off I had yesterday, and lunch today, I've began modifying the unit recruitment pools for some of the factions. Currently, Rome and Carthage have been modified for the next update I will be releasing in a few days. I'll talk about Rome a little bit here:

    Since the game begins just years before the start of the First Punic War, it makes sense that Rome should have access to most, if not all of its Pre-marian, Manipular units. This being said, these are the changes that have been made to Rome's campaign recruitment pool:

    In a Minor Settlement of any commodity, without a Level 1 Barracks of any kind, you will be able to recruit Four Units: Rorarii, Equites, Hastati, and Leves.



    Once the settlement has reached its second Tier, Leves will be replaced in the recruitment pool by Velites, and Rorarii will be phased out of the Manipular Army. However, as long as a province has a Tier I Settlement, Rorarii and Leves will still be recruitable. To recruit the other Pre-marian units, you must build a Tier I military structure in the province. In Romes case, Roma already has one, which allows you to build all of the following: Equites, Principes, Hastati, Triarii, Rorarii, and Leves.



    Just as with the minor settlements, as the Major City's are upgraded to Tier II and above, Leves will be replaced by Velites, and Rorarii will be phased out of recruitment, except when one of the settlements in the province has a Tier I settlement or city.

    In addition, Tier I ports will now allow the player to construct Hastati Biremes for fleets.



    I'll talk about Carthage in a later post.
    Last edited by Archimonday; November 15, 2013 at 06:17 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    I am actually very interested in this mod. Yet, I have one more question: how well the naval battles are faring? Are they imbalanced like the vanilla game?

  12. #12
    Archimonday's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    I have insufficient study on Naval Battles at the moment to make decisions on their mechanics. I have to read some books and study up before I modify them, otherwise they would be modified by now.

  13. #13
    Libertus
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    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Archimonday View Post
    I have insufficient study on Naval Battles at the moment to make decisions on their mechanics. I have to read some books and study up before I modify them, otherwise they would be modified by now.
    I am really looking forward to this. :-) There are not many naval mods out there atm.

  14. #14

    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    Never mind the second question, lol. Remembered that cavalry guidons are white and red, infantry are blue and white. =)

  15. #15

    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Archimonday View Post
    I have insufficient study on Naval Battles at the moment to make decisions on their mechanics. I have to read some books and study up before I modify them, otherwise they would be modified by now.
    Archimonday,

    May I suggest "A War Like No Other" by Victor Davis Hanson? He gives a pretty detailed account of Greek naval activity during the Peloponnesian War, among other things. His info is the main source for my personal naval mod, and his book brings a good overall feel for the period.

    If you look at battle_entities table and go by CA's logic, a Nimitz class carrier shouldn't be able to exceed 15 knots...

    In Greek naval engineering, sails are for traveling and rowers are for fighting. You lower the mast before a fight. The reason you build a trireme, quadreme or larger/higher is to get more banks of rowers to go faster. You want to go faster to hit harder with your specially designed, built, and cast ram...CA does not -appear- to understand the relationship of beam to length, height and displacement relative to (rower) power available. They either didn't research or made the design decision to go with a braindead naval model to satisfy those who think the biggest ship in the battle should be the slowest.

    A bireme should be slower in a straight line versus a 3, 4 or 5. So far for my own mod I have 6, 7 and 8's as slightly faster than 5's, haven't gotten down to digging up specs on beam of these bigger ships relative to quads/quints to do the fluids calcs yet. The major points in my mod are:

    1. A successful ramming in greek naval warfare usually resulted in the target sinking with all hands. Most didn't know how to swim.
    2. -drastically- reduce the hitpoints (battle_entities table) of transports. They can't effectively ram -and- survive. You can build transports fast, get on the sea and board with them if you're lucky/good, but you can't cast a bunch of very expensive iron and/or bronze rams and fight like a real warship.
    3. flip the speed values around for ship types. Single bank ships are sailing ships, not warships, even if they do happen to have fighting men aboard. They have roughly 4 speed, the biggest and fastest get speeds of 6.0-7.1 for example...
    4. Adjust barbarian (not Persian and Greek barbarian entries) ships for appropriate performance re: hull design (ramming = not a good idea) and banks of rowers. Longboats are sailboats. If the Arverni want a real navy, they have to figure out how to get Greek or Persian ships...
    5. Greeks/Carthaginians have the fastest ships. They had tradition of citizen rowers, were basically trained athletes. Romans are a bit slower to reflect high proportion of slave rowers.

    Once you've read Hanson's book, you'll see why my general testing philosophy is that all transports and longboats should be one shot kills for biremes, trihemiolias and anything larger...

  16. #16
    Archimonday's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    I've been studying the physics of these ships a tiny amount. Two days last week I spent an hour each day reading different sources on the subject. There is a lot that goes into calculating how they should/should not react on water, and which ships are better warships. I agree with most of your points in the short amount of study I've done.

    The important first step for the Naval Battles will be getting the physics right, and all other adjustments will come after. Nailing speed, acceleration, deceleration, ship weight, ramming speed, collision radius, ramming damage, hull strength, and a whole other host of variables regarding the ships themselves is of importance right now when it comes to navies. It will be some time before I have any real cumulative results to show though.

    One disappointing thing about Rome 2 is its lack of ship variety. There are a good host of warships in the ancient world, which are not represented in the game. If I had more time I might undertake modeling them.

  17. #17

    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    Check out Aeimnestus Naval mod, he did some excellent work right out of the gate on speed and turning rates in particular, based on real world numbers. Any decent naval mod should be using his model for the performance of greek_three as the median value. In his thread he's given blanket permission for other modders to use his work. Let me know if you want me to cook up a sample battle_entities table for you to play with.

  18. #18
    Foederatus
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    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    Thank you for great mod. Battles are amazing. Your aproach to unit parameters is the best. Only thing that bothers me is the diplomacy of AI and therefore campaign AI agressivity. I started as Arveni and most of the nations are offering me 2000 - 4000 for non-agression pact. They do not want to go to war with me and not to each other. They are forming alliances within themselfs. I keep steamrolling one nation to another and their neighbours do not care. It would be great if you could look into it.
    I will try to substitute with Dub's diplomacy mod, but I am not sure if it is compatible. Thanks.

  19. #19

    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    Yep, I believe you. Modding can be tedious at times, but when you get it right it's so damn satisfying...kind of like coding.

  20. #20
    Archimonday's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: ArchiMod: Rome 2

    Another log here. Working on Unit cost and Upkeep today, as well as finishing up the Carthaginian recruitment pools.

    Carthage had a big problem, in that it couldn't recruit soldiers fast enough to rescue its Empire from any sort of decay. Carthage currently is disliked by a lot of countries in the game, and this definitely needs to be adjusted to give her more of a chance. For the time being however, allowing Carthage to recruit some units that only take one turn to build will help the AI, and the player, survive the onslaught of the Iberian tribes, or the Roman and Syracusan threat from the north.

    All Tier I Carthaginian cities will have access to three basic units: Carthaginian Cavalry, Citizen Militia, and Javelinmen.



    In later iterations, I plan to expand this beginning unit roster even more, allowing for the recruitment of some mercenaries from Africa, and Iberia. Once the player has constructed his level one military building, he will get access to most of the Carthaginian unit roster, which will give him plenty of variety for the Carthaginian armies. A player will be able to recruit: Carthaginian Cavalry, African Pikemen, Libyan Infantry, Libyan Hoplites, Citizen Militia, Javelinmen, and Libyan Peltasts.



    The next update will also include some minor CAI tweaks, better focusing their actions.

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