Lack of uniqueness between each factions units

[misfitsfiend138]

I like messing around on custom battle and it seems that for many factions (I'm going to use successor states for an example) there is a lack of variety/uniqueness to their units.

Big images incoming!

The Ptolemaic Agema

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and the Seleucid Silver shields

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The only difference between them are the shields. They got the silver shields right by literally giving them silver shields. However the shield designs are the same . Im no history buff but did the ptolemaics and seleucids use the macedonian star on their shields?

Here the Baktrian and Seleucid Hyspapists have the macedonian sun

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Here are the "African" and Indian elephants

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Here the silver shields swordsmen look like the ptolelmaic thorax swordsmen.

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Another thing I wanted to point out in the Seleucid roster was that there is no difference in the Agema and companion cavalry. Unit price is the same too. I could have sworn agema were more armored than companions but less than the cataphracts.

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THe baktrian companions have a nice added touch to them.

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Bottom Line: Lack of diversity. Lots of recycled stuff and bright Pastel colors.

The upside is the BAktrians look very cool. The colors used are nice and not sore to the eyes.

[Korburss]

Diversity: The DLC. Now for only a dozen low payments of whatever your local currency is.

[Sar1n]

Yes, the Vergina Sun symbol was actually used throughout hellenistic world, in fact only thing tying it specifically to Macedonia is its use in one royal tomb.

[B-DizL]

That's dissapointing, still not as bad as Empire tho

[Stath's]

yes, there is a great lack of diversity regarding the units and we know that thye could easily add some minor differences between them, but they choose not to or they did not have enough time to do it. Either way, it is a major disappointment.

Let them talk about 700 or 846 units. Only dumb people can't see that these numbers do not actually exist in the game.

[Rasic]

You've only scratched the surface OP. Libyan Infantry? African Pikemen? Late Libyan hoplites? Yeah.. those are all just thorax swordsmen with a few changes to the shield. There are literally no dedicated marines in the game, all naval units are just copies of land units thrown on a boat. It's really ridiculous how they claimed 700 units when the count of actual unique models in the game is closer to 150-200. I'm guessing the flood gates of DLC will open up here soon though, there is no way that is the only amount of units the team made with such an increase in budget, unless the project was just that poorly managed. Most of the faction rosters are worse than they were in the original rome.

[the_mango55]

Most of these troops are equipped the same, I don't know why they would look different.

[karamazovmm]

Most of these troops are equipped the same, I don't know why they would look different.

equipping similar units with similar equipment, nets similar results?

we must be crazy! they should look totally different despite that!

[Rasic]

Most of these troops are equipped the same, I don't know why they would look different.

You don't know why Libyan Infantry and Silver Shield swordsmen should look different equipment wise?

[misfitsfiend138]

The thing is CA said that this game will have over 500 unique units. WHen that comes in to mind I was expecting each faction roster to have different looking skins, not recolors of models that use pastels and neon.

Look at mods such as EB, Roma Surrectum 2 and Res Gestae

This is RS 2 Ptololemaic Agema:
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6751/agemaqb8.jpg

EBs version:
http://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/un...ikon_agema.gif

Res Gestae:

Seleucid Agema Calvary:
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6374/11xx2.jpg

Seleucid General Bodyguard:
http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/3...sstrategou.jpg

Silver SHield swordsmen
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/6...airophoroi.jpg

Seleucid chalkaspidai
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6...alkaspidai.jpg

Theyre not using bright, painful colors and theyre pretty historically accurate

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2263/2...32e_z.jpg?zz=1
http://www.wmwiki.com/hosted/redfox/...leucid23vf.jpg

[Aodh Mor]

let's not forget that you've only mentioned 1 playable faction there, the rest are minor factions that would have got little attention, it makes financial sense for CA NOT to put detail into those factions - if they did, why would we buy any DLC - if Seleucids had a full roster, why would they make us wait for the Free DLC?

[baldrick13]

still not as bad as shogun though...

[beksibeksi]

irl there are no differences other than training and equipment
they all looked pretty much the same and battles were largely one sided
how man kinds of pikemen, hoplites, or swordsmen can you have?
they're all just some dudes in pretty clothing

[Gunfreak]

Actualy I don't have a big problem with most of those units, Hellenic units were much the same all over the hellenic world, They used the same armor, same shields, same helmets, only diffrence was color(the linothorax could be colored in almost any color, from pink, to purple, to blue and white, tho white was the most commen, even the bronze helmets could be painted red or blue(both commen colors)

I have more problem with the barbarians, spanish celts are all the same, galls are all the same, hell even Thrace use "celtic" slingers, tho Thrace was not celtic as far as I know.

The backbone of any hellenic army was the phalangites, they looked more or less the same, be they Macedonian, Epirus, Selucid or Egyptien, Then you have hoplties, those were mostly greek mercenaries, you would later have Thoroporoi and Thoraxrites, medium and heavy infantry, to be used on flanks, as more mobile infantry then the pikeblocks, and that was really it, sure you had elite units, but those are special, All other infantry would be "natives" Usualy never on the same quality as their hellenic units.

Now cav was a diffrent story, alot more varried, and the game does have that. So I have little problem with the hellenic units, more with the barbarian.

[ShadowMassa]

CA did a good job with the units on this one, same with Shogun II. I would believe they are inspired by EB and other mods for TW:R1, it's even more evident with the Baktrian units, colors, ect. There are similarities with the factions/culture, which is understandable.

[VektorT]

CA did a good job with the units on this one, same with Shogun II. I would believe they are inspired by EB and other mods for TW:R1, it's even more evident with the Baktrian units, colors, ect. There are similarities with the factions/culture, which is understandable.

What? No.

Did you played EB and Roma Surrectum at all? Some units, like Sparta, Corinth and Athens hoplites are similar, but still more different than a unit from Macedonia to one from Egypt or Seleucid in RomeII. Both in EB and RSII some units use the same hardware, but you can see some cosmetic differences between them giving a unique feeling. While some of that differences may not be totally historic, they are gameplay wise, and saying that something is for "history sake" in RomeII, the most arcade TW ever, is a pain in the ass. RomeII is not historically accurate where it should be, but claims to be in parts where it should not. Some of the "historically accurate" parts of RomeII just looks like developer laziness.

Shogun, on the other hand, is a totally different case. Japan is not much bigger than Italy and all of it's people are much more closer, ethnically and historically, then macedonians and egyptians. Shogun Total War II lacks unit diversity 'cause it's portraying only one country, but Rome II are portraying three continents.

[ShadowMassa]

Some art variation would of been nice for the shields though. Hellenic or Egyptian-East influences along with it. Something like EBI

[Stath's]

^yes, exactly.