Roman units and officers grossly made

[PROMETHEUS ts]

Hello , I have found some really annoying mistakes and grossly made work on some of the units for Rome, I haven't gone checking in details others yet .

So Despite premarians like princeps hastati and triaria are made pretty well, as well as the reformed first legionary , the armoured legionareis and the segmentata ones all the rest are not , and I refer in particular to the Cavalry .

It seems to me that they had been recycling some of the land units and stuff here .

here some pictures to explainmore in detail

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

General



Legatus



No Centurion



Praetorian



Praetorian guard



Supposed Centurion



Equites



Aux Cavalry



Legionary Cavalry



Praetorian cavalry

The Officers look lik ewearing an Egytpian style collar and scale armor .
The Centurions are compleey missing and if that guy with red crest should be a centurion its wrong
Praetorians are also wrong they shoudl wear the more advanced segmentata
Praetorian guard shoudl have been more iconic and Roman styled rather than a copy of legionary with segmentata
the cavalries are all wrong as are wearing wrong kind of mail , wrong officers , wrong shields for the most and missing officers and standard bearers
The generals legatus arealso wrong
and guess what the general unit doesn't even have a leader or if there is looks just like all others ...


The reasons for those grossly errors? I think are dued to the rushed release or a minor care for the romans in general .


I also woudl have expected to see the return of the Arcani unit , now they placed Gladiators , berserkers, Egyptian old style, pijama party , dogs and ... no Arcani? One unit that woudl have made surely a difference between all the looking the same legionareis , and despite some mght argue they never exhisted , there are actually historical proves that they did ... perhaps not dressed like RTWI but undoubtely they were cool .
there are a lot of other units that coudl have been done for romans , like antesignani , manuballistarii , Cohors urbana , militia ,
names wrong like funditores , sagittarii ( syrian archers look different from what they should )

you can see an old mod showing of some of units ...

for the officers woudlhave been nice to see , Standard bearers , corniceans , Centurions , Optio ( this one is in apparently ) and signifers ( there were more than one but one is ok )

[Vaðarholmr]

Stay on topic

[Septimus]

I agree. Hopefully modders will be able to fix this. Until then I'm steering clear of this of a game.

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?620138-KLA-s-new-IMPERIAL-ROMANS-skinpack-%28mini-preview-of-new-helmet-missed-by-CA!%29

The mail is actually not totally wrong.

In case of the Praetorians, as i wrote allready in another thread. I would have expected an scorpion on the shield, as their symbol since there is no real difference to the legionaries, except the quality of their equipment, which you probably don't even see, except that the armours are a bit more polished and cleaned. The normal Praetorians ingame are Preaugustian and since the Segmentata wasn't around before 20 BC, it is just logical that they have none.

I agree that the roman generals could look more unique. Thats a valid point.

For the other units you would like to see. Your militia is basicly in with the garrison units like rorari and the vigiles. The cohorts urbana are another theme, but there was a lot of people back than in rome 1 who cryed how wrong they are etc.

[PROMETHEUS ts]

The mail is mail and this is the sole reason why is not totally wrong , but its not the right design of the cavalry man they used a different one , the one used now is just a recycled .

as for praetorians I referred mostly to the shields patterns , the kind of helmets and eventually the mail style as well as the segmentata usage , since the praetorians in the game are anyway made after augustean type they shoudl have segmetnata , while the praetorian guard shoudl be more Iconic like the depiction on walls and carvings .

I have yet to see a decent Roman attic style helmet to be used on a general , that woudl require a 3d work

I haven't seen vigiles ingame , perhaps I missed them .

as for that mod it creates an unrealistic Mixture of armors . Romans especially in late period got uniformed equipment due to the fabricae and mass production when an army was furnished and levied, its no more the old thing of bringing the granFather's weaponry or buying them casually from the market . The armors coudl varyand did vary according to the region and commission but not for an entire unit .

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

I don't know how to recruit the Vigiles, maybe they are a garrison unit you get with one of the watersupply buildings for your city. Anyway you can recruit them for your army in costum battle. Should be the first of the spear units if i remember correctly.

[Yue Fei]

There's another issue with the Praetorians. The signifier should be wearing a lion's pelt.

as for that mod it creates an unrealistic Mixture of armors . Romans especially in late period got uniformed equipment due to the fabricae and mass production when an army was furnished and levied, its no more the old thing of bringing the granFather's weaponry or buying them casually from the market . The armors coudl varyand did vary according to the region and commission but not for an entire unit .

Although this is not entirely true. Even in the late period, the equipment was varied amongst the legions, and while it may have been somewhat similar in appearance, they were by no means uniform. While the state did supply legionaries with their equipment, it was not given out. The solder was given an allowance for their equipment, and then purchased what they needed from the fabricae. There's enough evidence from archaeological finds that a variety of different types of body armour and pila were all in the same place that any idea of uniformity amongst the standard legions (i.e. not the Praetorian guard) can be considered untrue.

[PROMETHEUS ts]

There's another issue with the Praetorians. The signifier should be wearing a lion's pelt.



Although this is not entirely true. Even in the late period, the equipment was varied amongst the legions, and while it may have been somewhat similar in appearance, they were by no means uniform. While the state did supply legionaries with their equipment, it was not given out. The solder was given an allowance for their equipment, and then purchased what they needed from the fabricae. There's enough evidence from archaeological finds that a variety of different types of body armour and pila were all in the same place that any idea of uniformity amongst the standard legions (i.e. not the Praetorian guard) can be considered untrue.

Well the state paid the leginary who was allowed to buy with that money the equipment , wich was actually detracted from the pay but the state gived the legions the same equipment , when oredered the fabricae produced in mass production hundreds of items and it made no sense to make different ones .
the fabricae were specialized in that so the uniforms were all the same . the only variances woudl be for veterans and evocati eventually that could imply some older stuff from ex duty offices .

[Yue Fei]

Well the state paid the leginary who was allowed to buy with that money the equipment , wich was actually detracted from the pay but the state gived the legions the same equipment , when oredered the fabricae produced in mass production hundreds of items and it made no sense to make different ones .
the fabricae were specialized in that so the uniforms were all the same . the only variances woudl be for veterans and evocati eventually that could imply some older stuff from ex duty offices .

Not entirely. There was no stipulation which stated that all soldiers had to be supplied from the fabricae. Soldiers could turn up with their own equipment if they wished to. Especially if that enlisted soldier came from a wealthier family. There's nothing at all that states that he couldn't use his father's previous equipment. And most common evidence throughout Roman re-enactment circles, is that the soldiers were not as uniform as one would expect, and the notion of mass production is not exactly a correct one. It was not mass production as what we think of it today, and even within the same item there was likely to be variations. It wasn't just one fabricae that was producing all the items. The soldier was given an allowance that he used to purchase his equipment. Perhaps that particular soldier didn't care for segmentata, and preferred to wear squamata. He was quite able to do this. The findings at different forts supports the argument that the legions were varied in equipment. There have been different helmet types, armour types, pila types, all found within the same fortification.

The legions were most certainly not uniform in the manner that is commonly thought of. Especially not the modern notion of uniformity. It's certainly not going to be like the first Rome, where every soldier wore the exact same thing. From a distance they might look all the same, but upon closer inspection of a legion, one would clearly be able to make different soldiers apart just by looking at their equipment.

[Swerg]

Didn't the Praetorian cohorts (and centurions, sometimes,) use non-standard armor? I seem to recall reading that they had specially made, muscled cuirasses. I don't know if they would have worn them in battle (did the praetorian guard ever actually go into battle?) but that would have been a neat addition.

No doubt somebody will mod it in.

[Alexander Iulianus Verus]

Prometheus. Just make a mod. thanks

[ferres]

Yeah, they did recycle the infantry models again and just issued them an oval shield.
Roman Cavalry mail is more Celtic in appearance. That there is infantry mail with corresponding cingulim belt. There's a ton of reference for this.

[SinerAthin]

On this topic, I can actually agree.

Someone spruce up the Roman officers!


But, just out of curiosity; how much of a task is normally to simply give them a new piece of armor or two, and give their clothes some fancier colours/patterns?

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

The arty units are all bald in my Roman army.They need hair.
I would also like some kind of Roman archer from Rome as they did know how to use bows and arrows.If they can make Ballista I am sure they can raise a unit of Archers to protect their walls and towers.We need more units and the testudo does need fixing as it is not protecting men from slinger's.

[PROMETHEUS ts]

The arty units are all bald in my Roman army.They need hair.
I would also like some kind of Roman archer from Rome as they did know how to use bows and arrows.If they can make Ballista I am sure they can raise a unit of Archers to protect their walls and towers.We need more units and the testudo does need fixing as it is not protecting men from slinger's.

I made a mod that fixes this ... I also sugested Lusted perhaps to look into it on that mod that fixes and hopefully fix also the abnormal heights disproportions of the units ...

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ge6&highlight=

trying to fix other things in that mod .

In general I do not think that they made big mistakes, but they made rushed work at the end , a lot of things couln't go in as seems there are lots of models unused and unfinished and so a lot of probably the grossly look is due to the reuse of this and that ... too bad the testudo can't be fixed by modders.
[QUOTE=Pinarius;13250123]"Egyptian style" huh?



And u post pictures of eenactors? I doubt they made it correct , perhaps better posting an image of original source .
allso the model itself in the game doesn't look proper made and resembles more an egyptian concept .

[Pinarius]

And u post pictures of eenactors? I doubt they made it correct , perhaps better posting an image of original source .
allso the model itself in the game doesn't look proper made and resembles more an egyptian concept .

I posted pictures of reenactors to make it more descriptive for the people here. But here's the source for this armor-design:
http://muzeu-turda.cimec.ro/Exponatu...alallunii.aspx

Case closed.

[Pinarius]

The Officers look lik ewearing an Egytpian style collar and scale armor .

"Egyptian style" huh?

[Rittsy]

Well this is how it is. If you'd like to mod it we'd all be more than happy to see your work, but until the game is in a playable state for everyone who purchased it I wouldn't want CA dedicating recources to something like this.

Rome is also represented pretty well already, maybe not 100% realistic (if there is a way to even do so), but they have plenty of units with a lot of variation.

[PROMETHEUS ts]

Well this is how it is. If you'd like to mod it we'd all be more than happy to see your work, but until the game is in a playable state for everyone who purchased it I wouldn't want CA dedicating recources to something like this.

Rome is also represented pretty well already, maybe not 100% realistic (if there is a way to even do so), but they have plenty of units with a lot of variation.

No infact I complained only about some units and some variances , not about all the premarian and marian infact are pretty good , so are the segmentata , just the cavalry was kind of rushed seems to me as well as some details here and there like the Centurions.