Mare nostrum????????Cause this game, simply, DOES NOT HAVE SEA.

[pajomife]

Now no one walks the earth, everyone, even the most obscure little faction has a complete fleet, can strike anywhere, nor need to build boats, just take a leap into the water and the boats appear.

This is completely insane and kills the game, the Mediterranean Sea is a lake where everyone just wandering.

Any faction of the Iberian peninsula, invades Asia or Greece and vice versa, the game is completely uncontrolled and senseless.

This option to enter the sea and have a fleet at your disposal is basic error,they should expect this kind of spam. They did not test? Did not anticipate this would happen? It is incomprehensible.

This is a example ,only after 20-30 turns this is what we get.Its a shame CA.




PS:Is the Empire naval invasion bug. But the opposite way.

PS2: It is the last land of Carthage. The Seleucids have disappeared ,Ponto also. Maybe Turdetani will be the biggest Rome rival or the Dumonii? But I bet that will be the Demetae Empire.

[Dago Red]

It is completely senseless.

Armies being able to dive into the water practically anywhere they want to and instantly have a huge fleet of heavy transport ships is the worst idea CA has ever had. It totally ruins the realistic aspects about this periods warfare -- or any period for that matter, because at no time in history was any army so mobile and self sufficient.

I have watched as LAND LOCKED factions with one city and NO PORT, declare war on other factions halfway across the world from them, and the next turn have 2 huge fleets of full stack armies in the water. They had no navy, no port, and were not even anywhere near a coast.

It turns the campaign game into a child's cartoon game, sapping all of what would be the great atmosphere of the brilliant map and ruins what little intrigue the game does have. It's beyond stupid game design, to say nothing of historical farce. Cities, whole factions, constantly falling and rising again, then falling again to some random enemy that would never have attacked them in history, ever. And worse, it's just not a "feature" that is fun to play.

[pajomife]

I just want to see if they,CA,have the guts to redesign this and other aspects of the game. The AI simply does not proceed by land.And it is not only a matter of historical accuracy, it is matter of gameplay, this is completely out of control.

[RZZZA]

How am I playing it then if it's unplayable?

[♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠]

your screenshot isn't added. would be interesting to see though

[Suite]

Carthage seems to rally their "forces" between Carthage and Lilybaeum, they gather all their stacks there in the sea. Brilliant move and meanwhile the Gaetuli snatch Carthage itself. I had not one single land battle without settlement in my campaign and I think this and the full sea are linked.

[Kenios]

I had not one single land battle without settlement in my campaign and I think this and the full sea are linked.

This is due to a combination of:
(a) Ability to cross huge distances via force march stance. This makes it very difficult to intercept enemy armies on the march
(b) Lack of infrastructure. CA removed things you can attack on the map, so the only thing the enemy will gun for is the setttlement itself
(c) Meaningless roads. In past TW titles, roads make fast travel. However, armies can now ride across fields just as easily. Hence, with the danger that the enemy may simply bypass you, there is little sense in stand around in the wilderness. Not to mention there is a garrison bonus if your army sits in town.

[Gaizokubanou]

Eh, this is a non issue because a fleet of combat naval ships can just obliterate transport fleet through autoresolve so hard.

[Påsan]

Better than the full-stack-put-into-a-small-boat of all previous TW game. This is irrefutably more realistic.


We don't have a situation now that if a enemy cog sinks your cogs, then somehow you loose your whole army.

And 160 men can build a boat within the spn of a year, its not unbelievable. There should be a price tag, yes. But the ability is stellar.

[Plan C]

Better than the full-stack-put-into-a-small-boat of all previous TW game. This is irrefutably more realistic.


We don't have a situation now that if a enemy cog sinks your cogs, then somehow you loose your whole army.

That little boat represents escort you assign to your "invisible" transport ships, I think.

Irrefutably more realistic is a very unfortunate turn of phrase because it is a serious mistake from gameplay perspective. It is the laziest crutch which AI was given to engage with the player and it is put in place because CA AI programmers have been, perennially, unable to create an AI which can take advantage of campaign map features.

AI doesn't know how to play this game - that is the issue.

I thought one of the complaints was naval invasions weren't occurring?

They were in Shogun 2

[wulfgar610]

I thought one of the complaints was naval invasions weren't occurring?

[Friedrich Barbarossa]

I love this new Feature, it provides totally fascinating situations. TW has always been a "what if?" Scenario. Now you have defend your weak home provinces

[Påsan]

Yeah I actually loose provinces now to coordinated naval invasions. (Radious mod)

England is not invulnerable for the first time.. ever, In a TW game.

[Ivan The Terrible]

Don't forget that not only are armies walking on water, but embarking an army is more powerful then an actual navy. The only way standard naval units are even partly effective are through auto-resolves; and hell the naval battles are so buggy as is I suppose auto resolving is the only way to go anyways.

But yes, navies, naval movement, and everything naval related is in a state of disarray from a gameplay perspective.

[RandarKal]

Don't forget that not only are armies walking on water, but embarking an army is more powerful then an actual navy. The only way standard naval units are even partly effective are through auto-resolves; and hell the naval battles are so buggy as is I suppose auto resolving is the only way to go anyways.

I wouldn't say that...I used all of three Garrison ships to destroy half a full stack of transport ships once...not sure why it happened that time, given I've seen far worse outcomes, but it happened.

[GODzilla]

At the very least they should make some changes to that system:

1.) The moment an army steps into the water, it should have zero (0) movement points. This would simulate a years work of building the ships and putting them into the water, sailing continues the next year. Iirc this is almost the case, though armies can move a little bit.

2.) Transport ships should be considerably slower, because they carry more (not just the soldiers but provision and equipment for an invasion) and miss the sails of larger warships. I know sails are not as important, but the two points should still make a difference. When merging a fleet with a transport it should become much slower and lose movement points.

3.) Hitpoints. Those damned transports should have very low HP. As it stands now they can almost compete with warships of the same class. Considering balancing this should not be the case because you (or the AI) can get 20 capable warships by moving a fullstack into the water. Instantly. For free. Insanity!

[vonDuus]

At the very least they should make some changes to that system:

1.) The moment an army steps into the water, it should have zero (0) movement points. This would simulate a years work of building the ships and putting them into the water, sailing continues the next year. Iirc this is almost the case, though armies can move a little bit.

2.) Transport ships should be considerably slower, because they carry more (not just the soldiers but provision and equipment for an invasion) and miss the sails of larger warships. I know sails are not as important, but the two points should still make a difference. When merging a fleet with a transport it should become much slower and lose movement points.

3.) Hitpoints. Those damned transports should have very low HP. As it stands now they can almost compete with warships of the same class. Considering balancing this should not be the case because you (or the AI) can get 20 capable warships by moving a fullstack into the water. Instantly. For free. Insanity!

I agree. The Roman legions actually built their own transports, so the new mechanic is not unhistorical. But sure there ought to be some penalty - i would prefer some percentage instead of just reducing MP to zero, as it does not take a year to build a transport fleet (I believe Caesar's legions spent three months, not a whole year, building their fleet for the invasion of Britain).

Then there is the question of building wooden ships on the borders of Sahara; I can live with seagoing nomads, if it means the ai will launch more invasions.

And even if fleets vs. transports is quite unbalanced right now, it is actually easy to get rid of transports in a battle: Just buy as many (heavy) artillery ships as possible and then sink the enemy ships from a distance. Remember to buy a few cheap expendable ships to sacrifice if the enemy threatens to board your artillery ships. Put the expendables in front of your artillery and let them get boarded, if you direct your artillery fire there will be a good chance that you can sink the attacking ships before they do any serious harm.

[Mephalamos]

At the very least they should make some changes to that system:

1.) The moment an army steps into the water, it should have zero (0) movement points. This would simulate a years work of building the ships and putting them into the water, sailing continues the next year. Iirc this is almost the case, though armies can move a little bit.

2.) Transport ships should be considerably slower, because they carry more (not just the soldiers but provision and equipment for an invasion) and miss the sails of larger warships. I know sails are not as important, but the two points should still make a difference. When merging a fleet with a transport it should become much slower and lose movement points.

3.) Hitpoints. Those damned transports should have very low HP. As it stands now they can almost compete with warships of the same class. Considering balancing this should not be the case because you (or the AI) can get 20 capable warships by moving a fullstack into the water. Instantly. For free. Insanity!

I hate the new system, but I could learn to live with it these suggestions were implemented, especially the first one. If the soldiers are building ships, then they should have to remain on the beach/coast without movements points for the turn that they embark.

[rrgg]

I hate the new system, but I could learn to live with it these suggestions were implemented, especially the first one. If the soldiers are building ships, then they should have to remain on the beach/coast without movements points for the turn that they embark.

It does take an entire turn's movement to embark or disembark from a beach/coast (decreased to half a turn if you use double time,). Embarking is only a free action if it is done from a port that you already own.

[yutterh]

@Godzilla I don't think the transport ships should be slower. I just feel they should lack the force march ability in the water. Not only would actual navy ships be able to reach farth they can easily catch up to a unguarded transport fleet. I agree with everything else.