Realistic Units mod - heights and Roman Reskin

[PROMETHEUS ts]

Glad it fixed , I wish that CA took that mod to fix their units in the base game, they are relly ridiculous how they did ...

Also I had collected lamentations of people on how the barbarians are overpowered compared to civilized and trained soldiers like romans or greeks and eastern cavalries outdone by barbaric ones ... Is that game a barbarian feticism way to rewrite history ? I can't mod the stats because it woudl make the game unbalanced on vanilla and it would also prevent playing with multiplayer, its something that CA shoudl do .

[VINC.XXIII]

@Prometheus, its what I'm feeling too, particulary about the ability that Barbarians have to build these "spontaneous" fleets that can destroy roman, punic and syracusean fleets, which is gamebreaking and ahistorical. The map goes WTF after 20 turns due to super strong barbarians(africans, celts, iberians mostly)
I just hate this feature of Land armies able to transport themselves with free war-ships.

Edit: and C.A don't seem to be willing to change that crap ability, they said "its a great feature"...

[pajomife]

@Prometheus, its what I'm feeling too, particulary about the ability that Barbarians have to build these "spontaneous" fleets that can destroy roman, punic and syracusean fleets, which is gamebreaking and ahistorical. The map goes WTF after 20 turns due to super strong barbarians(africans, celts, iberians mostly)
I just hate this feature of Land armies able to transport themselves with free war-ships.

Edit: and C.A don't seem to be willing to change that crap ability, they said "its a great feature"...

You don't like this feature ,what about me?i made 3 threads about it,here,here,hereI'm really obsessed with this bug,for some people"feature",and I dont fix it but I reduce it a lot in my mod.At least the minor factions don't spam armies/navies.

[PROMETHEUS ts]

Now that I think in my campaign as romans the only strong factions remained were: turdetani , suebi , iceni , seleucids , garamantes ,arverni and some other steppe barbarians , most if not all of the civilized cultures were wiped out at very start thanks to the CA love for unhistorically powerfull barbarian factions og giants.

[VINC.XXIII]

@Prometheus, the modification "God save Carthage" can help to calm african factions. I think its just need to make the same kind of script for northern barbarians. And eventually give extra-garrisons to Syracusa, Massilia and few others.
I've restarted a campaign with that script, and the map looks way way better, its let Romans and Carthage have some fight at least

PS: But C.A have to take in count History anyway. They're the lones who can fix their own mistakes concerning the core-features. Me I'm dreaming of removing the torches and just delete the Land armies ability to move on sea.

[PROMETHEUS ts]

VINC.XXIII

I have used your textures to create the patterns and I made a new array file and model to be used in place of the Vanilla one , now all 5 variations you did of the shield patterns are visible for the Italian troopers .

There is something to consider though :

I coudl as well have differentiated into Etruscan and Samnites , giving a different model with a different array , but that required a lot more work , not that it couln't be done , but CA assembled the samnites and the Etruscans all as similar Italian , despite they actually were quite different even in shield shapes .

So Here is the New Realistic units V 1.05 with the VINC.XXIII patterns , hope you like .

Download version 1.05

ANd here an Image

[VINC.XXIII]

Thanks Prom, I like them a lot, nice normal map
You're right, they're very similar, but I got a book about villanovian art and etruscan evolution, so eventually in future, you could cross some very unic patterns of etruscans.

PS: I know about the shape, fortunatly, Man of West Gondor have already started to modelize nice stuff(helms and shields) in prevision of the expected mesh importer/exporter. Etruscans are going to be unics as they desserve to be.

[PROMETHEUS ts]

Where?
Well the problem is that despite the units look more historically correct at least with the helmets , there are a lot of grossly aproximations and mixups , especially in some other cultures, and I think that the quick work done on some units , like for example roman generals, is due to the hurry and pressure to complete the stuff in time for release. I think that if they had more time , and I mean a lot more time perhaps the units woudl look better and more correct .

Another issue is the system os ufins modular pieces, that despite efficent and optimizing , it creates a lot of ugly bad clipping due to non perfect rigging of the model itself on the skeleton , with probably poor or few tests on different models to see if they matched all movements .

That summed up with the absurd features removed, the bad gameplay , the poor UI and so on, This game woudl need a Redo from scratch honestly , so modding can improve some bits of it but won't be able to replace bad features or introduce back the removed ones from Shogun II .

so the conclusion is that is not really worth much modding this game in my opinion .

I really hope and look foward for Medieval III , I think that CA shoudl get aknowledged about the reality of RTWII state and move on directly to the next title , but making it good this time .

[VINC.XXIII]

@Prometheus, I prefere to not see MTW3, according how was RII at the release, I thinks its going to be another History genocid. I'm yet imagining the gothic armor mixed with XIIth century great helms you know. Special abilities for italians: " Plot and Conspiration". With an advertising campaign full of Braveheart, Borgia, Kingdom of Heaven references. No thanks Let them fix their damned HBO marketing piece, please.

[Biggus Splenus]

I posed this on VINC.XXIII's thread (is that a name? )

Looks nice, but 1 problem; ancient Samnites didn't use that shield.

Livy tries to make a connection between ancient Samnites and the gladiatorial Samnites of his day. Other contemporary sources from the period (ie. Dionysius of Halicarnassus) specifically says they bear a thureos. Frescos show that Samnites used hoplon, rimless circular shields, and thureos-style shields. However, these are all coastal Samnites, and Livy's description of his Samnite shield may have been applicable for the men inhabiting the inland... may have. The only evidence of a "Samnite" shield that Livy describes (ie. trapezoidal) was found at Talamon, Etruria, "probably commemorating the Roman victory over the Gauls at Talamone in 225 BC..." (Peter Connolly, 2012), so that may have well been a Celtic shield... may have.

History aside, your shield art is amazing I'm not all for the green decor on the shields though; blues, reds, yellows and whites seem to have been the Italian colour-scheme. I actually don't think I've ever seen a contemporary painting of an Italian warrior with green clothing, or decorative art

[VINC.XXIII]

I know, like Etruscans they were influenced by Greeks, particulary when Samnites got some cities, like you said. Their upper classes had the hoplon, but its not suitable to give that one to all Samnites. That shield was so expensive(I've read that their equipement was freely provided to able men), to have only their officers and cavalry with its good from my point.
Actually, its Ian Eath who have given that trapezoidal shield to samnites linteati spearmen. I don't have the pretention to know more than him about this matter. And if I made a mistake, then in its case there about 20 modders are in the same case who portrayed Linteati with wrong trapezoidal shields.
If you take a look to Paeninsula Italica II(a reference for me), Linteati spearmen have the trapezoidal, while officers have the hoplon, and in last you have thureos for unarmored javelinmen(have an helmet though)


Yes, Vinc is my name, don't see what is funny with this.

[hameem123]

i have got a bug from this mod,i play as the Spartans and fought the Romans and their plebs all turned into Legatus Guards,they wear Metal Masks and Helmets as well as Bronze Cuirass lol.

[PROMETHEUS ts]

I posed this on VINC.XXIII's thread (is that a name? )

40. The war in Samnium, immediately afterwards,1 was attended with equal danger and an equally glorious conclusion. The enemy, besides their other warlike preparations, had made their battle —line to glitter with new and splendid arms. [2] there were two corps: the shields of the one were inlaid with gold, of the other with silver. The shape of the shield was this: the upper part, where it protected the breast and shoulders, was rather broad, with a level top; below it was somewhat tapering, to make it easier to handle.

Livy IX 40

[PROMETHEUS ts]

i have got a bug from this mod,i play as the Spartans and fought the Romans and their plebs all turned into Legatus Guards,they wear Metal Masks and Helmets as well as Bronze Cuirass lol.

Not a bug from this mod , check previous post 160 in that thread .

[Biggus Splenus]

.... Prom, yes I know that, I just pointed it out in my post. I'm saying that Livy's description could be totally bogus to what the contemporary Samnites actually used. He writes much after Samnite identity even existed, and could perhaps just be connecting the "Samnite" gladiators of his day, to the culture people... like I said, Dionysius of Halicarnassus who actually wrote from the period, says they used thureos. And like I said before, again, all artwork of the Samnites shows them with either hoplon, rim-less circular shields (similar to hoplon), or thureos.

Moreover, like I said before, Livy is the only ancient source that says they used this kind of shield, and the only archaeological evidence of something close to this representation comes from Etruria, which like I said before, is most possibly a Celtic shield...

[PROMETHEUS ts]

I would rather trust what is written by ancient writers than modern day retrovisionism theories based on sole personal doubts. Anyway also other authors desuribe how the romans adopted the square shield from a samnite type or sabine , the same fact that the gladiator samnite has a square shield means much , and a possible indication of the stereotyped equipment. Of a samnite inthe idea of the contemporary romans.

[Biggus Splenus]

Well Livy is infamous for being unreliable, but that's your view. I'm not sure why you trust a historian writing hundreds of years past these events, more than actual archaeological evidence though

[PROMETHEUS ts]

Infamous for who? and by what term definitions? and mostly according to who and based on what?
Usually modern "historians" are easy shooting on some authros when they do not collime with their opinions and ideas, and so they address that the ancient writer X or Y was unreliable, biased or the like ...
Truth is that Verba Volant sed scripta manent .

[Biggus Splenus]

Your first 3 questions made nearly no sense at all. But all you have to do is read his first few books to realise this.

There's your view, believing contemporaries without taking into consideration modern work or surviving physical evidence to any significant degree. Then there's the "new" view, of making up your own mind based on all the evidence you can find. So no, the truth isn't "verba volant sed scripta manent", its merely an opinion or point of view.

I honestly cannot see how you think Livy's account is more reliable than Dion. and all surving physical evidence... it's just not a sensible conclusion at all.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 4

[PROMETHEUS ts]

I have read in latin as well as many other direct sources, some modern authors didn't ever read in original languages . As said it makes sense o me to take for truth what archeology and ancient texts bring us . All rest of theories and made up stories based on modern ideas of what is a logical supposition is just fried air .
There are more than one references to square shield of samnites , Livy just goes into detail. And btw the samnite shield of gladiator was a bit different from what Livy described. Also to scrap Livy as reliable historical font then you can easily delete most if not all modern history books because a lot of authors refer to him for many many points.

Also for me what. Makes non sense is your affirmation of me beeing nonsensed because I did not consider valid Dion or the archeologic l evidence . Because first I did not talk of him even, second
The region inhabited by samnites is still way undigged , so basing an afirmation of nonexhistance because despite we have historical description and references by more than an author connecting to samnites the squared shield origins .
Just for the fact that yet no shield was found or portrayed in the few frescos ..... Is really not professional .
It would be like claiming that since we did not find any direct finding of a item , despite we do have descriptions , we consider it fantasy .