Realistic Units mod - heights and Roman Reskin

[Biggus Splenus]

I think Livy's bigger picture of his first books are reliable, but the ity-gritty details are something I'm always sceptical of. So no, I'm not throwing away all of his work, I'm just questioning what is questionable.

And yes I agree that primary sources are more important than secondary, which is why I find Dion. and the archaeological more reliable. Livy is not a primary source in this case.

Scutum have been in use inside Italia since the Villanovan culture (arguablly the birth of the scutum), and many variations throughout the peninsular would have appeared since then.

Dion. actually has evidence to back him up (frescos, pottery art), Livy just has himself. Like I said, the only represenation of the shield Livy describes was found in Etruria. Nothing has been found in Samnium yet except for hoplon, rim-less circular shields, and thureos.

I'm not saying Livy's shield is fantasy, I'm saying it didn't exist at the time that's relevant to us (Samnite Wars to the early 3rd C BCE).

..... Is really not professional

Well that's fine, because this isn't my profession.

At the end of the day, I don't care if I convince you or not, because I can accept the fact that there's very little facts about the ancient words, when compared to theories. I can accept the fact that not everyone is going to agree with me, and I'm fine with other people having their own opinions too. I'm just sharing my views here, and if you disagree I'm not going to complain fyi, you're not convincing me either

[PROMETHEUS ts]

Well I just prefer to stick with feet on ground and what we do know for certain based on the studies done so far , the actual historians and archeologist tend to accept the trapezoidal shield as relieable and not a fantasy of Livy , as because wouln't make much sense.
And apart that the game already has so many flaws that focusing on the shields shapes of the samnites really is the last of the problems. Unfortunatel the more I modded the game the more I saw. That it has potential for a great overhaul but that the job was poorly done on many units and mostly look like if it was extremely rushed on some and extremely optimized for others .at least the samnite ones do not look bad.
But the game is beyond fixability with a mod , they would need to redo almoust froms scratch and go back to the design room.

[Biggus Splenus]

I thought that was the approach you were taking anyway; stick with something that's a fairly concrete concept at this point.

Yes CA done rather poorly, it was talked-up far too much. I've noticed the Samnite pectorals B and C are actually broken, and the textures aren't even mapped onto the mesh... seriously crappy job by CA. These 2 armour pieces are actually well done textures too, so it's a shame.

Hopefully modders will all share the meshes and textures they make to the entire community, in the hope of repairing CAs design flaws (without special efforts been kept exclusive to certain mods).

[VINC.XXIII]

I'm always sceptical of. So no, I'm not throwing away all of his work, I'm just questioning what is questionable.

you're not convincing me either

You should bother the hundred "Corinthian helmets spartan mods", instead of hijack that thread which try to make the game a bit more historical, according actual knowledge(and inerent incertainties) and actual modding possibilities.
You're free to make your mod with Hoplons for Linteati.

[Lt.Chris]

I know this is a silly question but is it possible to make the soldiers into giants? I mean such as as tall as a city wall for example just pure curiosity

[PROMETHEUS ts]

Lt.Chris , check the first posts in the first page of this thread .

[Biggus Splenus]

errr.... Vinc, all I'm doing is having a healthy debate with Prom on the historical accuracy of the trapezoidal Samnite shield. He implemented these into his mod, so I feel it is relevant to this mod. I'm not going to create a thread somewhere else to discuss this with him.

I didn't mean to offend anyone. The artwork is great, I really like them, I just don't think the form-factor of that shield is 100% accurate. Obviously it's just an opinion, as Prom has made clear and using the trapezoidal shape is perfectly valid.

[PROMETHEUS ts]

It's ok , nobody got ofended .
Its just that this is how CA made them and implemented , I didn't implement them , infact I did put both the etruscan and the samnite patterns made by VINC into the same unit because to differentiate I would have needed to create different units, and I guess Etruscans didn't use that kind of shield perhaps , but anyway ... my point is that I am not so much sure about how worth is modding Rome II ...

I mean even if I could implement the new perfect realistic model for all units, but then the gameplay is that dumbed one we got , where woudl be the fun to play with them and so why make so much work for a game that is anyway destined to be forgotten soon?

[Biggus Splenus]

Yes I agree. The game has been dumbed down so much it's crazy. CA wen't backwards on this title.

I still stand behind the fact that we NEED mods for this game, perhaps not quick fixes/additions, but we do need some major overhauls to go along with these great aesthetical mods.

[VINC.XXIII]

@Prometheus, effectively, Etruscans used a square shield that is quite symetrical in late stages for their "Hoplite Class N°2", and it seems it was a kind of arming-shield, so prehension could be different from samnite trapezoidal and roman scutum. Heavier Hoplites had the Hoplon, like their heavy Swordsmen.
Anyway, the patterns for etruscans I've made comes from Gorgon, and obviously they mixed samnite, greek and villanovian arts in the same set. So their historicity is really subjective. Note that C.A also used Gorgon stuff as well...
But I plan to make Etruscan shields textures one time some new meshes are implemented and working in-game. Problem its we can't use the stuff that are always described in books about Porsenna, so not Veii's amphora, not Vibenna crest, nor the famous boar that belong to a private etruscan army...all have to be neutral, only decoration.

I like the game until to have a siege, its probably where the more broken things are. You know, the damned torches, the AI which stuck with siege machines...etc. Its really tiring.
Yes, we need that C.A start to work seriously on a "Realism" patch: fixed siege, walls for all "Civilized Word" cities, system of Pre-Placed Autonomous Settlements for Leagues(actual etruscan faction is joke and deny of history, like the total absence of aetolian and acheen leagues...).

[OlivierL]

I find it funny that in the entire game, not a single Greek, Roman or Phoenician unit can be taller than a barbarian unit. Maybe "Conan The Barbarian" was their historical source for heights?

[PROMETHEUS ts]

I find it funny that in the entire game, not a single Greek, Roman or Phoenician unit can be taller than a barbarian unit. Maybe "Conan The Barbarian" was their historical source for heights?

It woudl be weird though ...

Because this is how really Conan is tall ...

[Almogaver]

Hi, I get a weird texture on the plebs unit (mask and so on). I've got no other mod installed and I've searched through the thread but couldn't find any conclusive answer on how to solve this. Thanks.

[VINC.XXIII]

@Almogaver, I fixed it by using the Magnar mod that feature Prometheus phisical proportions. For me too the Realistic Units Mod alone or with Radious its resulted that plebs unit with mask..

[GenghisB]

Hey Prometheus, I got this conflict while trying to use your mod with Silven's Total Improvement Mod. My hunch is that it could be resolved because your guy's mods are doing separate things. I just want to use your heights and unit skins (at least to check it out). I guess your color changes don't conflict with the "Natural Dyes" mod

Error: db\land_units_tables\land_units

Realistic_units

[BlackamusJones]

How do I download this without having to download and install this "Tiny DM Manager" it's making me download for it?

[Londnred]

I've got viruses now from that website or its download manager, anyone else got that?

[TuCoT]

Is this compatible with the latest patch (1.5)?

[andreaperrino11]

no,but plz relese compatible unit size for 1.5

[Gamewizcreations]

This is no longer compatible with the new patch (1.5). Game won't start as it's just frozen on the opening screen. Please update, thanks!!