Who wants eras back?

[Korinthos Hoplites]

NOTES:
READ POST #35 BEFORE VOTING!

No matter in which era you start, the game only ends when your objectives are completed or when you reach the date limit (over 1500)

Do you want Medieval: Total War's eras included in Medieval 2: Total War? It seems CA isn't quite up to it so perhaps we can change their minds.... (remote possibility)

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

I don't care.
I always started in the early era anyway and would do it even if it was in.
So to me it is a a pointless feature that could be better spent elsewhere.

[Korinthos Hoplites]

Well, I hate beyond 1300 period and so I wouldn't like the campaign to enter it, so I had the option to play in the early period, now I don't, so, as obvious, I want them back....

[Henry of Grosmont]

Only once, I started in High Pediod. To me, honestly, did't make any difference (yes, different positions on the map by that year, but this is the only one), so why should I skip all those good years of conquering

[Korinthos Hoplites]

I thought You wanted it back

I'd better leave....

[RZZZA]

HELL YES I want era's back. Any feature that gives players more OPTIONS, I am for.

I hated how it was in Rome, I owned that game for years and I never once made it to the marian reforms because I would always expand so fast, and the game would get too repetitive and boring for me. I loved the option in MTW1 where you could start the game with heavy knights and guns or with nothing but urban militia and peasants...

They really ought to take less after Rome and more after MTW, in almost every way possible.

[Henry of Grosmont]

Don't be confused, Corinthian. There are a lot of people, who do want it back. And you can slow your expansion down, as almost ALL of us, I assume so, at least once did in RTW.

[RZZZA]

Ive never been able to slow my expansion down: the more provinces you have, the more troops you need, the more money you need to get, the more cities you have to sack. Its a vicious cycle, you cant turtle for long in RTW, it just wont let you. Turtling worked better in MTW and even in that game, you'd need to take awhile to build up an unbeatable fleet, and you need to make dcent full stack armies and place them in strategic positions.

The RTW map is not very friendly when it comes to turtling, and the economy with BI makes it even WORSE for people who lik to turtle, and for people who like to build up a nice treasury. Being unable to ransom back heirs/kings does a lot to contribute to the poverty, in MTW that was my chief source of income. Trap an enemy army in an isolated province, capture their noblemen/kings/princes and ransom em back for a killing.

[Korinthos Hoplites]

I've got 1 doubt: if you start in the early period (example), the campaign will end when the middle period starts or only when you or another faction finishes it's objectives? I hope it's the former....

[RZZZA]

I've got 1 doubt: if you start in the early period (example), the campaign will end when the middle period starts or only when you or another faction finishes it's objectives? I hope it's the former....

Are you talkin abou MTW1 or MTW2?

In mtw1, it doesnt matter what era you start in, the game ends only when youve achieved your objectives (and I think theres a set date for when the game has to stop, like you cant go into renaissance times...)

I dunno ive never had a problem though and Ive played plenty of campaigns starting from high/late period, never been prompted to quit. I usually get fed up and quit before anything like that happens.

I had no problem turtling.
It is only a vicious circle if you let it.
I could just take like 1-2 provinces, just sit there for 10-20 turns without any economical or unrest problems.
In one roman game as Julii I had just captured the 2 gaulish cities in the north when I got the reforms.

You shoot yourself in the foot by doing that, you arent building up enough money to stay competitive with your neighboring factions. Sure you CAN turtle when you have just a handful of cities, but youre gonna be a sitting duck for the enemy AI that has seemingly bottomless coffers and unlimited men at their disposal.

edit: it never was that way in MTW. in MTW1 if you defeat an enemy army they are gone forever, you wont see another full stack attacking you next turn like in Rome, the AI has to wait a reasonable amount of time to build up another army, just like the player has to.. But with RTW, you can go on and on and on defeating stack after stack after stack and they just keep coming.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

You shoot yourself in the foot by doing that, you arent building up enough money to stay competitive with your neighboring factions. Sure you CAN turtle when you have just a handful of cities, but youre gonna be a sitting duck for the enemy AI that has seemingly bottomless coffers and unlimited men at their disposal.

Actually I'am very competivitive.
Being the richest faction makes you very competivitive and you can afford to fight off the enemy that from time to time attack you without any problems.

Sure some factions required you to expand at the starts, germania and Scipii are the two I think of the most.
However you don't need to conquer alot of provinces in order to get rich and powerful.
Germania only needs 2 provinces, the one in the east with the silver mine and the one in Denmark.
If you have those 2 you will start generating a profit and when you get a harbor in both them, the profit will increase even more.
At that point you can turtle all you want.

[RZZZA]

Actually I'am very competivitive.
Being the richest faction makes you very competivitive and you can afford to fight off the enemy that from time to time attack you without any problems.

Sure some factions required you to expand at the starts, germania and Scipii are the two I think of the most.
However you don't need to conquer alot of provinces in order to get rich and powerful.
Germania only needs 2 provinces, the one in the east with the silver mine and the one in Denmark.
If you have those 2 you will start generating a profit and when you get a harbor in both them, the profit will increase even more.
At that point you can turtle all you want.

No, I'm sorry but I dunno what youre talking about. Ive played MTW and RTW extensively (mtw more) and I can say without a doubt that turtling/profit reaping is much less effective and pronounced in RTW than it is in MTW. in MTW, getting rich is relatively easy. In RTW, it is much, much harder...if you want to fight battles, youre lucky if you break even or turn a 100 denarii profit at the end of the turn. I just dont see how a comparison can be made: turtling in MTW is easy, and turtling in RTW is uneccesarily hard. Make a comparison with the northern factions, lets say the Norse. In RTW, even if you take sweden, norway, denmark, saxony and have a foothold in brittany and russia, you still do not see very large profits.

but in MTW, if you play as the danes/norse/swedish and take control of all the aforementioned provinces, youre filthy rich. All you need to do is build up trade fleets at this point to cement yourself as the richest superpower.

There can be no contest, the economy in MTw is much more forgiving than RTW's (and lets not even mention BI, talk about unforgiving)

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

No, I'm sorry but I dunno what youre talking about. Ive played MTW and RTW extensively (mtw more) and I can say without a doubt that turtling/profit reaping is much less effective and pronounced in RTW than it is in MTW. in MTW, getting rich is relatively easy. In RTW, it is much, much harder...if you want to fight battles, youre lucky if you break even or turn a 100 denarii profit at the end of the turn. I just dont see how a comparison can be made: turtling in MTW is easy, and turtling in RTW is uneccesarily hard. Make a comparison with the northern factions, lets say the Norse. In RTW, even if you take sweden, norway, denmark, saxony and have a foothold in brittany and russia, you still do not see very large profits.

Eehmm are you playing a mod by any chance ?? :hmmm:
I'm talking about Vanilla here and in vanilla there is no Sweden or norway. You take the province in Denmark and you get it all.
And I tried the germans in RTW many many times(favorite faction) and on VH/VH every time.
And I know taking those 2 provinces(Bordesholm and vicus gothi) will change your economy from red to green and generate around 1000 denarii each turn and when they are full upgraded then maybe around 3000-4000 denarii and this is with the Britons breathing down your neck.
And after that I will sit and get filthy rich while planning my expansion in peace(well except for the britons attacking you from time to time but they are easy).

Also one reason why I think eras aren't in the campaign game is because they are dynamic.
There is no set date for when you will enter these era like in MTW1.

[Khozemnian]

You shoot yourself in the foot by doing that, you arent building up enough money to stay competitive with your neighboring factions. Sure you CAN turtle when you have just a handful of cities, but youre gonna be a sitting duck for the enemy AI that has seemingly bottomless coffers and unlimited men at their disposal.

I disagree with that. On several of my campaigns with the Julii, after I had captured only 4 provinces (Segesta, Patavium, Mediolanum, Massilia) I waited specifically for the Marian reforms. By the time they came around I had three full armies in this small area of land, and over two million denarii (difficulty was vh/vh). The reason it is possible to build up is simply because you are building things in your cities which bring more money in. By the time the reforms came through, all of the citites I had were "huge cities" making 2 g's a turn.

I cant remember what its like in MTW but I hope they make it possible to sit back in M2TW for a while just to build up or watch how things develop.

[Korinthos Hoplites]

Well, I want the eras because people may want to start in a later date instead of 1080, I for one didn't like it in RTW. I hated to start in 270 BC it was just too early.....

BTW, I love turtling (that's my only way of playing the campaign)

RAZZ, you're right, I hated RTW's infinite armies... but anyway.... no-one beats me on defence (either on campaign, siege or open battle)

[RZZZA]

Yeah, I also liked it how the different eras gave more options and leeway for different factions. Like, in the Early campaign the Scots are not available, but the Sicilians are instead. And in the High campaign, the Scots are available but Sicily is not, it has been conquered by Aragon.

I love that. Rome campaign is too boring, no matter what you alays start at the same time, with the same factions...When are people gonna learn that giving the player more options is always a good thing?

[Big War Bird]

No eras for me. I always started my MTW campaigns from the beginning

[Lusted]

Well CA have said there will be eras in custom battles, but not for the campaign. i always started in the early era so im not gonna miss them.

[Korinthos Hoplites]

Well CA have said there will be eras in custom battles, but not for the campaign. i always started in the early era so im not gonna miss them.

Well, at least that! It's already good for me since I spend 3x more time playing custom battles than the campaign.....

[Lugotorix]

I am for Eras. It was fun fighting against late era factions like the invincible Swiss, and would allow factions like Wallachia to become playable from the start date. However the first mod I am looking for is one that adds Aragon to the game .
@RZZZA Mods decrease revenue considerably. Never had any problems with "Turtleing" Or biding my time as the Julii in Vanilla, though I agree that a passive agenda is much harder to pursue in R:TW than in M:TW. Quite simply; War is the ultimate route to profit. This is Total War afterall. It is possible to hold off for a few turns and build up in mods, but not as viable as expanding. Yes, in mods that increase province numbers you do feel like you are pushed towards war.
For example, in R:TR and A:TW you'll never have more than single stack until very late game. Your provinces cant support more. I had an issue with the Ui'Neill where I was expanding fine with two half stack armies in Dyfed, and recieving +100 per turn, despite having many provinces in Ireland. Then Connaght came at me with three full stacks. Yes, it is obscene.This was after very early game where profit was 1k+ per turn. It has nothing to do with skill. This was on normal with all provinces except newly conquered ones at very high tax rate. Also, more provinces=AI spending. I could say similar things about R:TR.
Many of the new provinces available havent been balanced and actually contribute to a decreased net which kills turtling. Provinces in vanilla have been fine tuned to population, resources, mines and so forth to CA's credit. I'm hoping vanilla M2:TW will be also.