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Thread: A few hints to help those frustrated...

  1. #1

    Default A few hints to help those frustrated...

    I always take an open-minded approach whenever a new game comes out in a series, knowing that the developers will get creative and come up with new ways to challenge us(or frustrate us). Before the flaming, I'm a 25 year old gamer with a job, over 200 games on just steam alone, and have been playing TW since Shogun 1 came out. I've played them all except Napoleon, even though I own it but have never found the time to download it on steam(it's like 30 gigs!!)

    Like a lot of people, the graphics seemed very low res to me both on campaign map and the battle map despite the default for my computer being extreme. Creative Assembly posted that checking the unlimited memory in the graphics option might work as a fix. It sure did! My cpu and graphics card fans still get very loud while playing. I'll patiently wait for the patches to fix that but the game is still playable.

    I did not play the prologue campaign. I opted to instead leave campaign and battle advice on high. I prefer the game teach me about things when I choose to do them(which it does a good job of emphasizing new features) rather than holding my hand through basics I already know like camera movement.

    I'd like to post some helpful things I've discovered to help players understand the new interface and features so that they can enjoy this game as much as I am. I remember getting frustrated with some games as a kid until I read some guides that gave me new ideas and strategies to try out. I'll try to first address some major problems people have.

    Public Order

    Cities and towns are no longer lone entities.
    1. Public order is shared between all cities in a province.
    2. What you do with a city after you capture affects public order in all cities in that province.
    3. Conquest creates an automatic lump negative amount in provincial public order, however it is only for 1 turn.
    4. If a province reaches -100 public order, a rebellion occurs.
    5. Having public order in the negative creates gradually worsening affects on growth rate and taxes. Having a high public order actually increases growth rate and taxes.
    6. If you mouse over the public order bar in settlement details, it will tell you what is affecting it as well as how many turns you have until a rebellion at the current rate of decline. If public order is increasing or still, it will say public order is stable.
    7. Culture plays a significant but balanced role. Buildings of a different culture will have a negative effect. To increase your culture, either build temples that promote your culture or send in the new dignitary unit. If you fully subvert an enemy province to your culture, you won't need much of a garrison army for long before public order starts going positive.
    8. Do not add building slots to cities unless you have the funds to fill them. Empty building slots will always turn into slums which have a -6 food and -6 public order effect on the entire province. Slums cost 500 denarii to destroy, loss of a turn, plus whatever else you have to spend to fill that slot.
    9. Carefully manage the amount of slaves in your empire. Slaves can significantly boost the wealth generated by your empire but at the cost of public order. I find the perfect balance is between 15%-20% of an economic bonus. For me that's currently enough to support an extra 20 stack army without the risk of a slave rebellion.
    10. Political instability will be annoying until you capture all settlements in a province.

    Agents
    1. Agent abilities are highly useful. They can sabotage the baggage train, removing any weapon or armor bonuses. They can subvert morale, remove all the movement points, or take an enemy general out of action just before you attack.
    2. Spies obviously make great scouts but fill the role of both spy and assassin in previous games. When attached to an army they help protect it from other agent attacks. I always have a spy with my popular generals as other houses often try to assassinate them.
    3. Dignitaries increase your culture in a province but can be "deployed" in a friendly province to boost public order and tax income. You can also attach them to armies to reduce upkeep costs. I currently have one attached to a 20 stack army of almost all legionaries who reduces their upkeep cost by 20%! Add in the raiding stance for an even bigger reduction.(This should help you barbarian players).
    4. Champions can help with public order when deployed in a province by instilling national fervor in the populace. When attached to armies, they actually add experience to all units in the army every turn which can be increased as he levels up. This is how I got an army with several units of legionaries with 3 gold chevrons earlier than I thought I would.
    5. Agents can all attack each other through different means, but they have the highest chances of success when used in a rock-paper-scissors fashion. Champions kill spies who kill dignitaries who kill champions.

    Battles
    1. Holding control will always force a unit to walk as well as maintain formation if moving a group.
    2. Units that are heavily disciplined will not automatically chase routing units. If given a choice between having my men break the line to chase routing enemies, opening themselves up to be flanked and slaughtered or catch their breath for the next wave of the assault, I'll choose the latter.
    3. Town centers will no longer make units immune to routing and cause unrealistic fights to the last man. If you want to see a lot of casualties, put all your men close together in the town center and watch that massive ball of doom turn into a massive route and slaughter.
    4. Use the new line of sight system!!! I can't stress this enough. It is so awesome. You can still use it to ambush enemies even inside of a town or city. The AI will pursue targets it sees as vulnerable. I've used tall grass to make the AI think one area of beach was safe to land, only to be met by a hail of javelins and a horde of war dogs when they disembarked.

    I will add more tips and advice as more people whine about gameplay features they don't understand and as I discover them.

  2. #2

    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    thanks for solving a few questions.

  3. #3
    Nota''s Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    +rep.
    Thanks, why couldnt you have written this a day ago!
    At the moment having trouble justifying building much above tier 2 buildings due to the squalor and food penalties. Tier 2 is only benefits.

  4. #4

    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    Good idea.
    Also, regarding trade agreements, these would seem to depend on what you have to trade. Athens weren't interested in Olive oil, but once I was trading wine, they happily agreed to trade.

    I think the lack of transparency behind the low, moderate and high acceptance tiers makes it hard to understand why the AI accepts or rejects something.
    Currently following these promising mods - Imperia Antiquitatis by Splenyi
    Traits, Talents, and Toadies
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    Real Roman Reforms
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    Unit Icons project
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    Also recommended:
    City Sack, Liberation and Diplomatic Options
    by Dresden

  5. #5

    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    Nice, thanks for this helpful thread.

  6. #6

    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nota' View Post
    +rep.
    Thanks, why couldnt you have written this a day ago!
    At the moment having trouble justifying building much above tier 2 buildings due to the squalor and food penalties. Tier 2 is only benefits.
    This is why the new province system is necessary. The food penalties are there to stop you from getting high tier buildings allover your empire. This game requires far more planning ahead with what to do with future turns than any previous TW game I've found. That to me is a major improvement on its strategic depth. I'm sure squalor can be reduced through techs and other buildings. This means you'll have to focus on growing your provinces so they can support more buildings. I have one settlement in my Italia province that only produces food...

    Now if CA decided to allow either importing or exporting set amounts of food between empires....nah I'll leave that to the next TW game...

  7. #7

    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    I tried using your advice, buts the game still drives me nuts.

  8. #8

    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    Thanks mate! Great tips I been frustrated about actually.

    Could you also explain why can't you move into a province, unless you have a target to attack? My friend and I were playing co-op, and he couldn't move into enemy territory no matter what he did. Any ideas why this is?
    Be on alert, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. Let all that you do be done in Love. (1 Corinthians 16:13)

  9. #9

    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    Thanks, mate.

  10. #10

    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel*Faith View Post
    Thanks mate! Great tips I been frustrated about actually.

    Could you also explain why can't you move into a province, unless you have a target to attack? My friend and I were playing co-op, and he couldn't move into enemy territory no matter what he did. Any ideas why this is?
    Armies and cities, especially armies inside of cities have a zone of influence that prevents enemy armies from passing through without attacking. I've noticed that larger cities have a bigger zone of influence. I can't confirm yet that larger armies also create a larger zone of influence. Sometimes the area around a settlement or city is so small, you can't move past it without attacking or having a military access treaty.

  11. #11
    Coxy's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    Quote Originally Posted by icedude94 View Post
    9. Carefully manage the amount of slaves in your empire. Slaves can significantly boost the wealth generated by your empire but at the cost of public order. I find the perfect balance is between 15%-20% of an economic bonus. For me that's currently enough to support an extra 20 stack army without the risk of a slave rebellion.
    How do you balance them then? Is it when you conquer a region you mean??

    Cheers

  12. #12

    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    Quote Originally Posted by Coxy View Post
    How do you balance them then? Is it when you conquer a region you mean??

    Cheers
    Keep an eye on the overall public order of your provinces. If public order for a province is at 100 and you see it's still +10, you can definitely do with more slaves. You can always mouse over the public order bar in settlement details to see the effect slaves are having on your empire. The settlement details screen also shows the economic bonus of slaves as a percentage bonus to tax income.

  13. #13
    MonTeZuma's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    Quote Originally Posted by icedude94 View Post
    Keep an eye on the overall public order of your provinces. If public order for a province is at 100 and you see it's still +10, you can definitely do with more slaves. You can always mouse over the public order bar in settlement details to see the effect slaves are having on your empire. The settlement details screen also shows the economic bonus of slaves as a percentage bonus to tax income.
    Quick question about slaves in one of my towns it shows slaves affecting public order by -15 does that mean I have too many or not enough slaves?

    Also what can I do about it as it is making my provinces rebel.

    playing as rome.
    Drink Whiskey and you'll feel better.

  14. #14

    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    Quote Originally Posted by MonTeZuma View Post
    Quick question about slaves in one of my towns it shows slaves affecting public order by -15 does that mean I have too many or not enough slaves?Also what can I do about it as it is making my provinces rebel.playing as rome.
    It means you have too many. More slaves = lower public order. Just stop taking in more slaves and the effect will go down gradually over time(as well as the economic gains). Hopefully you will have invested the monetary bonuses wisely...

  15. #15

    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    Can anyone give me any tips about plagues? I haven't seen any ways to improve or change a cities public health effects. Right now it seems like you're totally at the mercy of the plagues that take place, and they seem to last forever 5+ turns, and you're lucky if this doesn't make you loose your campaign.

    Also, had anyone noticed that the damn agents block your armies!? I got totally surrounded by agents and I can't even move my damn armies anymore; I'm not talking about them having success sabotaging my army either. I remember this was even in Rome I, and it was stupid then, but now it seems even worse due to how many kinds of agents there are.
    Be on alert, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. Let all that you do be done in Love. (1 Corinthians 16:13)

  16. #16

    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    To add some other notes to the province system:

    1. Non-capital settlements can only upgrade temples to level 2 and can't build some building types.

    2. Check the settlement type to see what buildings will be available there and what bonus you will get from the basic settlement types (market, grain, trade resources, etc.)

    3. Settlements have a limited number of slots, capitals have more slots with more building choices.

    4. Balance your squalor buildings (agriculture, etc) with those that give public order. Some buildings give a ton of food but will also cost you a lot of public order.

    5. Food directly affects your unit regen rate, if you go into negative your units will enter attrition.

    6. Concentrate your various provinces on either maritime, agricultural, cultural, or industrial income. In this way you can maximize the bonuses from the temple and forum types.

    7. If you have public order issues in a province you can either station military there, stop taxing it, build public order buildings, increase your culture, or put a dignitary in the province.

  17. #17

    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    While icedude writes as if he were a CA employee, I am still thankful for his clarifying notes on the game. I am not exactly happy with the way it is, however, I still think it will become enjoyable over time. (Mulitplayer is a different matter).

    These hints and tips will help me with my next campaign.

  18. #18

    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    Temples seem to be a really good idea in this game. Find the one that provides the most public order and build those everywhere. Then if public order becomes too abundent you can easily convert them into a different type of temple such as research.

  19. #19
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    how do i get more slaves?

  20. #20

    Default Re: A few hints to help those frustrated...

    Capture more by defeating enemies.

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