We may be shooting ourselves in the foot & effectively ending the TW series.

[Woolygimp1207]

Rome II is a mansion, built of marble, that someone put on the market without properly tiling the roof. It's foundation, brilliant, filled with every amnetiy yet not someone forgot to pay the electric bill. There's a game here. A very, very good game. You just need to play on very hard/legendary or progress far enough into the campaign (for the AI to challenge you) for you to properly observe it.

Early game, Roman units decimate the competition. The AI wallows. The game is filled with minor bugs, annoyances, and things that can very easily be tweaked. A few small minor patches and this will be the best Total War game ever produced.

Instead, we're in an uproar. The business suits, non-gamers, who only care about the bottom line are taking notice and we may, as a community, be shooting ourselves in the foot. We could effectively end the series, although unlikely but I did hear that CA was looking elsewhere for their next games. Creative Assembly needs to look and understand what other gaming companies are noticing; gamers like difficulty. We like to be challenged. We're not all eight years old and we like to solve problems, to develop solutions, and even small children are often underestimated as being a lot dumber than they actually are.

Your average gamer shouldn't have to crank a game up to legendary to derive enjoyment, challenge, or to really feel the masterstroke. This is a colossal up because we have a great game here. Someone just needs to get on the roof, plug the leaks, and turn the god damn power on!

To CA: Stop releasing early and it's abundantly clear that your players prefer historicity over gameplay. To us: Let's just hope that this doesn't ruin one of the best PC gaming franchises we have left (and there aren't many, PC gaming is in shambles).

Mark my words. Within two months, RTW2 will be the best Total War experience that we've had. It just needed more work.

[TheChronoMaster]

The opinions of TWCenter shoot nothing in the foot.


It's so much sound and fury, signifying nothing.


Do you want to know what's important to business? Sales and metacritic Critic scores.

The former is the metric that suits use to decide if a franchise is worth continuing. The latter is the metric suits use to decide whether or not their developers get paid, or fired.

[Mephalamos]

The opinions of TWCenter shoot nothing in the foot.


It's so much sound and fury, signifying nothing.


Do you want to know what's important to business? Sales and metacritic Critic scores.

The former is the metric that suits use to decide if a franchise is worth continuing. The latter is the metric suits use to decide whether or not their developers get paid, or fired.

Err...just checked Metacritic, and the user-score is for Rome 2 is 4.9.

Europa Universalis's is 8.9, Crusader Kings II 8.3, and Dota 2 is 8.

Unhappy fans and fan-scores may not count as much in the eyes of the devs and pubs, but unhappy fans usually don't buy dlc or keep up in the community if their concerns/displeasures are not addressed. ME3 is a good example of that, with ME3's dlc sales ranking abysmally, and the community dissolving rapidly aside from lingering mp.

[jtfjtfjtf]

It's good that CA sees the displeasure and it'll be interesting to see how CA responds to it, for Rome in particular and potentially any future games in the TW franchise (Warhammer?) I'm interested in what the next Dragon Age is going to be like given the thrashing people gave to Dragon Age 2 (and rightfully so, that game is garbage.) For reference, the PC metacritic score for DA2 is 4.3.

[Sint]

Rome II is a mansion, built of marble, that someone put on the market without properly tiling the roof. It's foundation, brilliant, filled with every amnetiy yet not someone forgot to pay the electric bill. There's a game here. A very, very good game. You just need to play on very hard/legendary or progress far enough into the campaign (for the AI to challenge you) for you to properly observe it.

No not really,it's still a bad game.

Early game, Roman units decimate the competition. The AI wallows. The game is filled with minor bugs, annoyances, and things that can very easily be tweaked. A few small minor patches and this will be the best Total War game ever produced.

A few small patches won't be enough.

Mark my words. Within two months, RTW2 will be the best Total War experience that we've had. It just needed more work.

I will,but I don't believe you.

[Swerg]

A few minor patches can't fix things like the new HP system, and I doubt CA plans to significantly change the game's tactical model. Enjoy your simplistic mess. I'm going back to Rome 1.

[the_mango55]

Enjoy your simplistic mess. I'm going back to Rome 1.

The irony is biting.

[Greve Af Göteborg]

A majority of the game design is flawed. Don't think that the patches will fix that.

[Huberto]

A majority of the game design is flawed. Don't think that the patches will fix that.

I'd been saying this pre-release, but it's very revealing to hear you say this post-release. Guess I'm going to avoid this game indefinitely then.

It's sad to think after FotS last year, where we all thought this series might be heading...to see the deeply flawed place it's ended up. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing if CA stopped making TW and moved on to Warhammer and console titles...

[TheChronoMaster]

Wow, I'd been saying this pre-release, so it's very revealing to hear you say this post-release. Guess I'm going to avoid this game indefinitely then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias


I'm not saying you should buy the game, or anything, and there are flaws on both design and technical levels -- but I'm just saying.

[Huberto]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias


I'm not saying you should buy the game, or anything, and there are flaws on both design and technical levels -- but I'm just saying.

Yeah well, I known Greve for years and he's been a defender of CA where I was a critic but the fact that they've lost him speaks volumes.

[nameless]

A majority of the game design is flawed. Don't think that the patches will fix that.

I'm having a hard time imagining what in the world is that it's flawed. The loading times are superior to what I had to do deal with in FOTS. In the end it's the computer rig but that's like with every game and a game as complex as TW is going to have issues like that regardless since all of us here have various rigs.

Things like Family trees and such are mainly just personal opinions.

Other than that the game runs fine. Playing Sparta on normal I haven't had any issues. Factions love diplomacy and work around with non-aggression pacts and alliances and they actually honor it.

After 50 turns into the game I'm finally running to heavy units and in a battle between Spartan hoplites and Thorax swordsmen the melee is drawn out and goes for a bit until they reach 40 units then they start to route.

[DavidtheDuke]

After 50 turns into the game I'm finally running to heavy units and in a battle between Spartan hoplites and Thorax swordsmen the melee is drawn out and goes for a bit until they reach 40 units then they start to route.

This is my biggest beef. That and I can't seem to find a field battle. Wasn't that supposed to be a part of the design?

Also,t he AI tries to push its way into a settlement, running by my hoplites, and baiscally getting massacred. In Medieval 2 this actually worked for them, but here I've beat 10-to-1 odds "exploiting" this (defending a city corridor). Imagine what an open-beta of pre-orders would've done for this release.

[DavidtheDuke]

After 50 turns into the game I'm finally running to heavy units and in a battle between Spartan hoplites and Thorax swordsmen the melee is drawn out and goes for a bit until they reach 40 units then they start to route.

This is my biggest beef. That and I can't seem to find a field battle. Wasn't that supposed to be a part of the design?

Also,t he AI tries to push its way into a settlement, running by my hoplites, and baiscally getting massacred. In Medieval 2 this actually worked for them, but here I've beat 10-to-1 odds "exploiting" this (defending a city corridor). Imagine what an open-beta of pre-orders would've done for this release.

[Woolygimp1207]

All they need to do really is slow down battle speed and add a family tree. What are you rambling about in regards to HP?

[Swerg]

All they need to do really is slow down battle speed and add a family tree. What are you rambling about in regards to HP?

Some of the modders have already gotten into the pack files and posted comments about them in various topics.

In previous TW games, units mostly had 1 hit point (some, like generals or elephants, had 2-3.) Units would rely on factors like defensive skill, armor and shielding in order to determine if they died or not. In this game, it seems, units have 30-50 HP, with things like shields and armor providing bonuses to HP. Units take damage every time they're hit, regardless of whether or not it was on the shield, in an armored area or whatever.

Do I need to spell out the tactical implications of this in a TW-style game? Particularly since there is no indication of what a unit's HP is until it actually dies.

[Revan The Great]

All of this uproar is comparable to other TW releases. If anything, it may even be less of a furor than the much maligned Empire: Total War release.

In any case, I do believe that in a few months the game will be made into something great, and in the meantime oh well. I don't think any of this matters for the future of Total War. Now if the game doesn't improve, and they consequently don't sell any DLC's, then yes that might crush Total War.

Still, even if Rome 2 turns into an unmitigated, total fricking disaster (which I don't even think it is right now), I think 90% of Total War fans would still give the series one more chance, and I don't doubt that CA would make damn sure to learn from their mistakes.

[Jedi]

delete forum lag

[Jedi]

All of this uproar is comparable to other TW releases. If anything, it may even be less of a furor than the much maligned Empire: Total War release.

In any case, I do believe that in a few months the game will be made into something great, and in the meantime oh well. I don't think any of this matters for the future of Total War. Now if the game doesn't improve, and they consequently don't sell any DLC's, then yes that might crush Total War.

Still, even if Rome 2 turns into an unmitigated, total fricking disaster (which I don't even think it is right now), I think 90% of Total War fans would still give the series one more chance, and I don't doubt that CA would make damn sure to learn from their mistakes.

They had that mistake in Empire one fraud is enough.I mean the head of CA Mike Simpson had free copies of Empire for his friends/family and was so ashamed of the final product he refused to send the copies out until the game is finished.And then during Shogun II development we heard CA talk about how they had a blackboard with things on it like do not ship until complete which they said they would not do until thie'r blackboard list was completed.


Yet they decided to do it twice and as a company dependent on revenue from fans they made a shocking decision.How many companies can in reality keep doing that and survive? They are blessed with having a monopoly over a niche, a niche some of us care very much about and enjoy.And the sad truth is no one else will give us our fix apart from Totalwar.So yes in reality if the game is not majorly revamped within six months to a year and major apologies made in public or explanations sales will be hurt and they will need to come out with a very very good expansions to even have a hope of winning back fans.

[Xaosan]

I do agree with the op. Restarted a campaign that was about 80 turns in on normal and by god it was lame, upped the setting to very hard and the game is almost there just need the benny hill combat to go and the crappy points on land battles and i'd be happy!