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Thread: Sense of scale and GRAND STRATEGY

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  1. #1

    Default Sense of scale and GRAND STRATEGY

    I haven't played all that much Rome 2 yet so my view on things may be wrong/incomplete/etc but given the flurry of criticism about various bugs and glitches as well as corner case design decisions that are questionable I wanted to comment on what I feel is wrong with Rome 2 in a broader sense.

    Clearly CA has put a lot of effort into their engine, in particular the campaign and the various decisions there, I think it's a great move and I was really quite excited about it, and to a degree I still am even if it's dimmed by the implementation. They put a lot of effort into reducing the 'number of moving parts' and making player decisions more interesting, this leads to there being fewer armies on the map and fewer important settlements that are easier to manage. Unfortunately that's about all they've done. While the province capital and minor settlement setup provides the potential to flesh out the map with more settlements then you found in Rome 1 without turning the campaign into Seige: Total War this was ignored in favor of giving us even less total settlements then before.

    On top of this a provincial capital in Rome 2 is less capable then a settlement in Rome 1 as far as total potential is concerned, this is a result of porting the build setup from Shogun 2, which itself isn't too bad but when compounded with the fact that now farms ( and other resource development? ), ports and blacksmiths are sharing the max of 5 city building slots this is actually an even more constrained system then Shogun 2 before you even touch on the number of branching options there are for development where Shogun 2 had a bit more unified buildings. If anything the opposite should be true since the cities of Shogun 2 spend much of their existence as part of a large unified state who's individual roles in the economy of Japan could afford to be more specialized where in Rome, many of the cities were City-States with centuries of history as independent actors.

    It's now literally impossible to make an Athens with the same options and capabilities as it would have had in centuries past, forcing a choice between a trading port that's the only way to get any trade but produces no food and basically no ships and ports that will either produce ships or food is just insane. What naval power in history would have built up a powerful navy without being able to take advantage of the trade or fishing their navy secured? I've barely gotten into the game and already the 6 slots for a provincial capital and 4 for smaller settlements feels overly cramped forcing punishing decisions upon the player instead of difficult ones.

    I know I can't count on CA to alter their game to my liking but I will make this promise. Not going to pay for even one DLC until I'm certain that it's possible at least to mod the game into a more GRAND STRATEGY state ( map editing is probably the big one here ). If CA is only going to launch bite-sized Total War campaigns then they'd better allow the community to take the game further.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Sense of scale and GRAND STRATEGY

    try eu4 if you want grand strategy.


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  3. #3

    Default Re: Sense of scale and GRAND STRATEGY

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoicblitzer View Post
    try eu4 if you want grand strategy.
    Different era, Monarch points are poorly implemented and for better or for worse that's wrapped around the very core of progress in the game. Oh and the new start date messes with Novgorod, my faction of choice, pretty hard. I'd like to think that in theory CA & Sega still wants the total war series to be grand strategy, certainly their previous games had such aspirations but it feels like we're backtracking.

  4. #4
    Razor's Avatar Licenced to insult
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    Default Re: Sense of scale and GRAND STRATEGY

    I agree with the limited amount of buildings that you can build in settlements. Actually I've never liked the road CA took since ETW regarding settlements. You'd indeed get those weird choices you have to make, as if in a huge city there's no room for both an Opera building and a Blacksmith (for example). Not only are those unrealistic choices forced upon you, it also results in far less management on the campaign map and far less immersion that you're actually adding something to settlements (because there's a really small number of building slots compared to RTW and M2TW). I also don't feel that attached to provinces anymore. I haven't played Rome 2 yet, but judging from what I'm hearing about what CA has done to the UI and the lack of settlement information and building info I expect this feeling to become worse.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Sense of scale and GRAND STRATEGY

    I don't even entirely mind the attempt to give the player hard choices, building up huge omni-cities isn't necessarily ideal but it's really slipped from hard but interesting choices in Shogun 2 to just punishing ones here. Not being able to build all the buildings in the game in one city is fine, not being able to build a quarter of the buildings in one city is just punishing the player for not having a half dozen settlements yet, and seriously, the splitting of the port into four buildings... what were you thinking CA.

  6. #6
    monsterfurby's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Sense of scale and GRAND STRATEGY

    Try EU: Rome if you want grand strategy

    Just kidding.

    I completely agree. Sure, the Total War games were always wargames first and grand strategy second, but they were a combination and could easily be nudged in either direction via mods (see M2TW's mods for good examples for both directions).
    Resident radical moderate.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Sense of scale and GRAND STRATEGY

    Quote Originally Posted by monsterfurby View Post
    Try EU: Rome if you want grand strategy

    Just kidding.

    I completely agree. Sure, the Total War games were always wargames first and grand strategy second, but they were a combination and could easily be nudged in either direction via mods (see M2TW's mods for good examples for both directions).
    Yeah if its as moddable as RTW or M2TW then I'm not too worried about my enjoyment long term and would be happy to spend more money. If it isn't and we're stuck in this relatively small and barren sandbox for the life of the game.... eh I guess ill play something else after a few months where the original Rome kept me for years off and on thanks to mods. There's a tin of potential in the mechanics they've introduced I just hope they'll let the mod community play with that potential without a strait jacket.

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