The removal of family trees

[KoalaAkbar]

is just plain ridiculous. Of all the NUMEROUS (and I do mean numerous) problems the game has (piss poor AI, terrible optimisation, ugly UI and unit cards, siege of carthage, etc.) this one might just be the biggest issue for me. Now, I had been playing as Rome for about 50 turns until I got bored due to, among other things, the unbelievably weak and stupid AI. Soooooo I decided to give Sparta a go on legendary difficulty...

"Maybe the Spartans will have a family tree" I thought to myself.... "Maybe it'll be fun!".....

You start off with 4 generals/statesmen (who all look like apes btw): Areus Nikon, Cleomenes, and Galenos(who isn't a part of the royal family so I dont really care about him). Now, without a family tree, it really just makes things confusing. Is Nikon the son of Areus? A nephew maybe? What about Cleomenes? Are Cleomenes and Nikon brothers? Are they the sons of king Areus? Instead of an easy-to-view family tree, your are given a list of "Important Characters......"

Yeah, I get that they're important, but a little more detail as to WHO THEY ARE would be much appreciated. Who is their father? Who do they get married to? How are they related to each other? I really don't understand why the Creative Assembly would remove something that made Total War games so great. I remember playing MTW2 years ago (which I still play for the mods and multiplayer) and having huge dynasties with unique family members, princes, kings, princesses... Role-playing was great fun; you could have sons avenging fathers, brothers vying for control of the throne, emperors exterminating villages. Shogun 2 also had room for role-playing, and even though its family tree wasn't as complex, it still allowed you to clearly identify your daimyo's wife, children, and siblings. Their removal of such an awesome aspect of their games really baffles me.

This, and all the other equally terrible issues, have made me seriously regret buying it.

Anyways, what are your guys' thoughts on the removal of the family tree? Was it a good move? A grave mistake?

[Arcani 4 Ever]

On the plus side, the removal of the family trees. Shows us that CA next game won't be Medieval III.

Can you imagine Medieval III without deep family trees that run through generations of intermarriage with other factions that show how important your monarchy is and how it ties them to legends of the past?

Yeah, if CA dares to take the Warscape engine to Medieval III... i don't even want to imagine.

[In Rainbows]

Why? Why take something out of a game if it bloody works? I played Rome total war and Medieval 2 total war based on this principle of imagination and immersion. The intricate trait system of old is gone also, the generals are just there to min/max morale and use special abilities, they are completely vacuous to me as characters. I remember I used to rage so hard when my general died of the plague or something along those lines. I felt a deep connection with that lineage of the general and his legacy. I was there immersed in the game when I fought multiple stacks and barely got out alive with severe causalities. I just do not care anymore. Honestly, a revamped Rome total war would be better then what they have now. I don't understand the need to remove things that work and make the past bloody games amazing.

[Arcani 4 Ever]

Why? Why take something out of a game if it bloody works? I played Rome total war and Medieval 2 total war based on this principle of imagination and immersion. The intricate trait system of old is gone also, the generals are just there to min/max morale and use special abilities, they are completely vacuous to me as characters. I remember I used to rage so hard when my general died of the plague or something along those lines. I felt a deep connection with that lineage of the general and his legacy. I was there immersed in the game when I fought multiple stacks and barely got out alive with severe causalities. I just do not care anymore. Honestly, a revamped Rome total war would be better then what they have now. I don't understand the need to remove things that work and make the past bloody games amazing.

Because those 2 games didn't use the Warscape engine.

[keldor]

Yeah, Im on my 4th faction cant get passed turn 10 so damn boring. No family tree, constructing buildings bleh. But hey look at that i can enjoy watching my provincial capital grow in size for about 3-4sec, what fun. Im more of a campaign map player than just doing battles. And boy does the campaign map portion of the game suck. It looks pretty but...

Like in the other thread I said. This should be called Rome II King Arthur, not total war.

[Omar Nelson B.]

Because they have issues handling a large scale game like this? Because they are going to add it in later for free? Because they are going to add it in later for 10 bucks? Because they focused so much on the AI? Because they focused on making a game that could run on as many systems as possible?

One step forward, two steps back.
I'm still gonna play the out of it purely because there is nothing truly like it. It's easy to be the best when the competitors all suck.

As posted on the other post about them removing something that was already in the series. Makes zero sense.

[Tilarium]

Just because it uses the new engine is no reason to not have kept the original Romes family tree system. Battles are fun but I like to roleplay and write AARs about my games. There's just no connection, I know who my faction leader is, that's about it. I don't know his wife. I don't know his kids. I don't know his brothers or sisters. I don't know his nephews. I can't have my leader or generals killed and his son rise to glory to avenge his slain father. There is NO connection at all. When Shogun had it's minimal family dynasty screen I was happy. It meant that CA listened to us when we complained about the lack of a family tree. When they had more then one turn per year I was happy, it meant the listened to us. Both of those things, we complained about Empire to get put back for Shogun 2 were taken away, again, with Rome II. I hope they fix these issues. Putting them back in for those of us that love this sort of thing. Honestly, I might put Rome 2 aside for a while and go back to Crusader Kings II. At least there I can watch my dynasty grow and decline and everything else.

[Falconhammer1]

Rome 2 Total War isn't founded on the Warscape Engine but the Warscam Engine...

[stevehoos]

I don't have the words to describe how bland this title is, 0 role playing elements, just awful.

[Cathal]

People actually use the family tree? Weird.

[Osseon]

Shogun 2 had family trees and it was warscape.... Some of you make no sense.

[GNU07]

Shogun 2 had family trees and it was warscape.... Some of you make no sense.

Warscape is faulty, plastic, toyish, fake and wrong and should be scrapped right after Empire TW. It wasn't and will NEVER be a proper engine for a TW game. And i don't believe the fact that the scrapping of the good ol' Rome engine for Warscape and the disappearance of the whole family tree/trait/ancillary concept was just a coincidence. Warscape was only good about getting the buffs and sandals and generally useless graphical details right. And that's were it ends. The M2TW Engine is still the best TW engine to date and there is absolutely no question about it. CA should consider it even before starting to think about making R2TW. They didn't however, and thus didn't manage to deliver the masterpiece that they promised.

[Emperor Domitianus]

I have Always found family tree useless. I don't feel the lack of it.

[Vor]

This is about the only issue with the game that I really dislike. It's a shame they're gone.

[Settoken]

Interesting how this feature is useless for someone and essential for somebody else. It was a major feature for me too.
As you progress through the ages you remember that general who conquered Greece and died in that epic last battle a hundred years ago. You feel how his sons were not near as good at command. How one was just a good administrator and the other one was insane or lazy. How that unexpected general battle after battle prouved itself to be a new strength for the family while the most promising one finally ended as an average commander. How that Massilia garrison captain siege after siege became the most loyal and efficient commander and finally led the conquest of Gaul, etc... THIS is a big part of immersion for a lot of TW players and should not be regarded as a useless folkloric feature.

[Tilarium]

Interesting how this feature is useless for someone and essential for somebody else. It was a major feature for me too.
As you progress through the ages you remember that general who conquered Greece and died in that epic last battle a hundred years ago. You feel how his sons were not near as good at command. How one was just a good administrator and the other one was insane or lazy. How that unexpected general battle after battle prouved itself to be a new strength for the family while the most promising one finally ended as an average commander. How that Massilia garrison captain siege after siege became the most loyal and efficient commander and finally led the conquest of Gaul, etc... THIS is a big part of immersion for a lot of TW players and should not be regarded as a useless folkloric feature.

+1 to this post quoted above. In my Rome game the general the conqured most of Italy for Rome died in a heroic battle rushing to defend one of the cities from a small but well organized force. He was ferocious and tough as nails. I don't know if he even had kids or what they may have been like. A shame.

[Radzeer]

Yep, it's great for some (me) and others don't care (fine), but why take it out? It's part of the immersion (for me more than the right sandal).

Btw, I did not care for it at the beginning, but I remember one battle in Rome I, when I lost two generals and checked who those were. It turned out it was a father-son duo - this made the battle different in an instant.

So, as far as I'm concerned taking the FT out was a dumb decision.

[Scipion1177]

Sweet,

As I read many thread on the forum I realized I was not the only one to miss the family tree, how are you suppose to appropriate to yourself the story of a faction...

Plus few other "things" that did matter to me as the walls(?), generals look a like, AI dum, etc... but this is not the topic

At last, I hope one day I will be able to play with Cimmeria, Masillia, or Bactria....

[Sixer19]

this was an enjoyable feature. hopefuly it will be patched in...

[brandbll]

There was no reason to take it out for the people who didn't care about it. They didn't care about it, so it never really affected them. Now they just made it so no one CAN care about their leaders. , i don't even know who my last leader ever was in my last campaign. Was it the Barcid family members since that who i was? Was it the person with the most influence? Who the knows! They were all expendable since i knew nothing about them and i can just push a button and get a new one.