Two things about the carthaginian unit roster

[Chih]

Before I go into further detail I want to say that this is not in any way one of those threads where some random first time poster claims they've been a victim of false advertising, had their expectations completely ruined or in some other way bash either CA, Sega or Rome 2. I've been happily playing the whole day today without any issues so far. I'm merely confused about how the Carthaginian roster ended up in the condition it is now as it seems to be lacking a couple of units that should have made the cut. 1) Scutarii. I'm not the only one wondering about the disappearance of the Scutarii it seems as Ahiga made this thread earlier today. The Carthaginians recruited Iberians very extensively for their armies and their access to various Iberian units is surprisingly limited. It's totally OK and cool that not every Iberian unit will be in the Carthaginian unit roster, but why not the Scutarii?2) Carthaginian archers. There was minor outbursts back when Rome 1 was released because the Carthaginians completely lacked archers. Sadly they lack them in Rome 2 as well. Because Carthage has no archers, it also becomes a bit silly when Libyan javelinmen man every Carthaginian missile ship. Why pretty much every other faction except Carthage has access to archers is simply weird. The lack of archers is also a balancing issue, as it puts every Carthaginian player on the offensive even when they are defending due to being outranged.

[DarthShizNit]

I would imagine that the Scutarii are like in Rome 1, a merc unit you get from Iberia. But I am bumed about the lack or archers though. I know there are few mentions of Carthage having archers, but it's only logical to assume they did. Didn't they have archers manning the walls in the Siege of Carthage trailer?

[Chih]

I would imagine that the Scutarii are like in Rome 1, a merc unit you get from Iberia. But I am bumed about the lack or archers though. I know there are few mentions of Carthage having archers, but it's only logical to assume they did. Didn't they have archers manning the walls in the Siege of Carthage trailer?

Nope, there are no Scutarii mercs you can get as any faction. The Iberian factions do get them though!

[DarthShizNit]

Hmmm that is certainly weird, of all the Iberian mercs to recruit you think that would be THE ONE lol. And does Carthage get no archers on boats either? IE, can you disembark an archer contingent on a boat to use on land? (sorry, haven't picked up my copy from Gamespot yet )

[Ahiga]

Why do I always double post. :\

[Ahiga]

Yeah, Chih, I am rather disappointed with Carthage's roster in part because of mixed expectations. On the one hand CA did an amazing job with the troops depicted - we get to see early vs late hoplites, they chose to depict the Punic spearmen as hoplites (Rather than sarissa phalanxes like some crazy people do), the Numidians looked cool. But then you have the most crucial Iberian soldier for the Carthaginians omitted and archers being omitted, along with some other personal complaints of mine.

As soon as it's possible to modify the game I am planning on first and foremost adding the necessary troops to Carthage that were omitted. Unarmored Thuerophoroi (I think Polybius accounts for these being the mainstay of the Punic armies in the 3rd War), Linothorax Thuerophoroi (As it seems that most people depict Thuerophoroi contemporary with hoplites for the Carthaginians) and maybe mail clad Thuerophoroi late era (though the Libyan Swordsmen fulfill that to an extent). Have the Iberian Scutarii become factional troops & "available anywhere" mercenaries (a'la the numidians), probably doing the same "Nationalized mercenaries" that the Numidians are for the other essential, common mercs the Carthaginians used (Gauls and Italics), ideally making the price much higher.

And probably add in some sort of heavier Gallic foot and/or horsemen for them to hire as mercenaries, too - after all the Egyptians get Galatian swordsmen and Royal galatians.

[DAVIDE]

To have archers you need bows and arrows. To have bows and arrows you need wood. To have wood you need forests. And there are no forests in Tunisia. Lacking of forests and wood is what we got here. It's the same issue the Egyptians faced in them whole ancient history. They needed wood but they never had their own supply area, how did they find the solution? They simply opened an expensive trade route, and i underline expensive, with Lebanon for cedar wood, with Greece for acacia, with Syria, Ionia, Cnidos, Rhodes for carob wood and so on. On the other hand Carthage, so Tunisia, was plenty of stones and skin materials. This is why it is more likely or plausible that the category of carthaginian "skirmishers" (if we call it in this way) was formed at the 95% by slingers and not archers.

[Igor85]

Sorry, Occhi, nowadays you may be right, but back then there were many forests around Carthage. Ever heard of the North African forest elephant? And do you really think Carthage had not enough wood to make bows, but enough to produce the biggest naval fleetback then? Of course Carthage had Archers.

I'm also a little dissappointed at the unit rooster, I thought Carthage would have more variety, at least 2-3 numidian units, more iberian units and of course archers. Now I have to wait for a mod.

[Chih]

@ DarthShizNit, nope, no archers at all, and the mercenary archers are pretty far away to recruit (Egypt/Hellas). @ Ahiga, yeah I fully agree. When I was digging through the roster I was thrilled to see that there's upgrades to late hoplites, only to notice that scutarii and archers are completely missing. Glad to hear you're going to add the troops we're all longing for and were hoping to see in Rome 2. I'll be sure to download your mod when it's available

[Greve Af Göteborg]

Found this, It seems that scutarii are in the game. They're listed as an iberian unit.