Why Odrisians look like the Thracians, but Triballi Gauls look like the Gauls? (Both are the Thracian tribes)

[KLAssurbanipal]

Why Odrisians look like the Thracians, but Triballi look like the Gauls?

Odrisians and Triballi are the Thracian tribes.
It isn't only historical reason. It is for better balance, too. There are many identical Celtic factions, but only few Thracian factions. Why one of Thracian factions must be another Celts in other color?

Thracian tribes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracian_tribes#Thracian

Thracian clothes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracians

Odrisian Kingdom in the game:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Triballi in the game:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Terminus Est]

Not much of a source, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triballi says: The Triballi were a Thracian tribe that received influences from Celts, Scythians and Illyrians.

I'm also guessing CA decided to make them a bit more disctinct from the other thracian tribes.

[omzdog]

Think they might have overstated the Celtic influence of the Triballi.
And I doubt enough is known to definitly recreate them they way it was done in those images above.



this image shouldn't be given academic treatment, but it looks completely different, having more of a Thracian look.

[TheDarkKnight]

Other members and their posting habits is not the topic.

[KLAssurbanipal]

I'm in the "couldn't care less" camp... The same one I'm in through almost all your moans ands gripes

I have a right to my opinion and questions. Do you understand?

There are many Celtic tribes, but only few Thracian tribes. Why no more diversity? Why all Thracian tribes don't look like Thracians?
There are 3-4 Thracian factions, and 15-30 Celtic factions, so it will be better if those 3-4 Thracians will looks like Thracins, not anorther Celts (other colors). More diversity in the game.

[Scarrus]

I actually want to point out something

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

GETAE(Yes, they actually dressed like this for warfare):



DACIANS:



Probably Bessi Tribe:



ODRYSSIANS:

These were all Thracians

[AndyMoszejevsky]

The Triballi tribe were under an strong material and culturel influence of the eastern group of the souitheast-alpine Celts - later called Scordisci.
They are a mix between Thracian, celtic, pannonian, paonian and illyrian influence.
I hope we see them later more historical - Now it looks to much celtic.

H.Balck

[omzdog]

I actually want to point out something


*snip*

These were all Thracians

Some of the pics are more sensible than others but also show that you should ask yourself what segment of class you're talking about. Those Odryssian horsemen are no doubt landed or wealthy or assistants to the upper class.

So the question evolves into not only was the identify of the different Thracian tribes, but how did the common soldier dress versus the chieftains?
When you talk about the identity of a culture I would point to the common troop, as they were not beholden to foreigners or foreign influence.

[DaciaJC]

I actually want to point out something

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

GETAE(Yes, they actually dressed like this for warfare):

These were all Thracians

Ugh, please don't tell me you're using that awful show Spartacus as a reference on the Getae.

[Scarrus]

Ugh, please don't tell me you're using that awful show Spartacus as a reference on the Getae.

I don't like the show much either, part because it's a bit too homophobic for my taste
But I think they nailed it pretty well with the Getae war dresses.

[omzdog]

Ugh, please don't tell me you're using that awful show Spartacus as a reference on the Getae.

That's what I mean by sensible btw.

[KLAssurbanipal]

Scarrus - Dacians part of or related to the Thracians.

Getae from Spartacus? There are more possible Getae:

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7883/...2218050cs4.jpg
(Roma Surrectum mod)

[Scarrus]

It's true that a lot of people(scholars) don't agree whether the Dacians should be considered Thracian, or part Thracian but the majority does and there is also strong evidence that suggest they were part of different Thracian tribes. Kind of like the Gallatians vs the Iceni, very different fro one another in a lot of ways but still Celtic.
Also most of the "Getic" units in RSII are not really "Gets" but their allies. There are accounts of a wolf-cult where these warriors wore wolf furrings and heads and performed ceremonies before the battles and also meditated so they can "become one with the wolf" so to speak.

omzdog

Originally Posted by Scarrus
I actually want to point out something


*snip*

These were all Thracians



Some of the pics are more sensible than others but also show that you should ask yourself what segment of class you're talking about. Those Odryssian horsemen are no doubt landed or wealthy or assistants to the upper class.

So the question evolves into not only was the identify of the different Thracian tribes, but how did the common soldier dress versus the chieftains?
When you talk about the identity of a culture I would point to the common troop, as they were not beholden to foreigners or foreign influence.

I don't really understand what you mean by sensible(English is a foreign language to me and most of my knowledge comes from American English)

True, although the Odryssian clearly shows a considerable degree of Hellenisation. They say all Thracians were to a point a bit hellenised, but in which way and to what degree, that's debatable... What I do know is the Greeks and Romans sometimes speaking about "the Getic Wasteland" Basically this place that nobody went to and came back(kind of like horror stories )

One is sure, the Dacians had LOTS of gold, so the chieftains probably were covered in it to show off their wealth. As for the commoners(Comati, funny how that resembles), well we know a lot of them if not the majority are Shepherds. In Romania up until lately(sadly) used to use sheep fur to make their clothings, because they keep very warm(about 10 times more than your average winter "jacket") and they also protect rather flawlessly against wind, and here we do get some winters when it's -20c outside and winding like hell so they actually needed that kind furring. I think it would be kind of logical they used something very similar if not the same clothing as I don't see them using something more advanced. Of course it's more or less speculative.

[KLAssurbanipal]

It isn't only historical reason. It is for better balance, too. There are many identical Celtic factions, but only few Thracian factions. Why one of Thracian factions must be another Celts in other color?

[Kinjo]

The Triballi were subdued by the Gauls in 309 BC prior to the Gallic invasion of Greece. Even after Antigonus II Gonatas defeated the Gauls in 277 BC you still had the Serdi, Scordisci, and the Gauls of Tylis in the area. I'm actually surprised CA dug this deep and I can see why they made them Gauls. It wasn't until 212 BC that the Thracians finally destroyed the last of the Gauls in the area.

Gallic invasion of the Balkans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallic_...of_the_Balkans

So yeah CA is right imo.

[GatorMarine1833]

The Triballi were subdued by the Gauls in 309 BC prior to the Gallic invasion of Greece. Even after Antigonus II Gonatas defeated the Gauls in 277 BC you still had the Serdi, Scordisci, and the Gauls of Tylis in the area. I'm actually surprised CA dug this deep and I can see why they made them Gauls. It wasn't until 212 BC that the Thracians finally destroyed the last of the Gauls in the area.

Gallic invasion of the Balkans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallic_...of_the_Balkans

So yeah CA is right imo.

I half agree.

True, the Gauls did move into the area and stayed there for some time, but the Triballi tribe didn't become a Gaulish tribe. Rather the Gauls moved in and the Triballi moved elsewhere.

So, because the faction is named Triballi, for the specific tribe it represents, it should still be Thracian, not Gaulish.

[Kinjo]

Do you believe that their culture were completely changed by few years? They adopted all clothes, armors, helmets from Celts and stopped using their things? It is completely impossible. Remember that they live near other Thracians and Greeks.

Their tribal area was occupied by Gauls, whats so hard to understand about that?

I half agree. True, the Gauls did move into the area and stayed there for some time, but the Triballi tribe didn't become a Gaulish tribe. Rather the Gauls moved in and the Triballi moved elsewhere. So, because the faction is named Triballi, for the specific tribe it represents, it should still be Thracian, not Gaulish.

CA choose for them to be Gallic because there is enough evidence to support that choice. Why they called them the Triballi I really don't know, but not really that big of an issue for a non-playable faction that will probably be wiped out by turn 10. Also maybe CA wants to make the Odrisians playable at some point and they want the historical struggle between the Thracians and the Gauls to be present.

[KLAssurbanipal]

Do you believe that their culture were completely changed by few years? They adopted all clothes, armors, helmets from Celts and stopped using their things? It is completely impossible. Remember that they live near other Thracians and Greeks.

[omzdog]

The Triballi were subdued by the Gauls in 309 BC prior to the Gallic invasion of Greece. Even after Antigonus II Gonatas defeated the Gauls in 277 BC you still had the Serdi, Scordisci, and the Gauls of Tylis in the area. I'm actually surprised CA dug this deep and I can see why they made them Gauls. It wasn't until 212 BC that the Thracians finally destroyed the last of the Gauls in the area.

Gallic invasion of the Balkans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallic_...of_the_Balkans

So yeah CA is right imo.

What you just said destroys the argument of making them Gallic.
If the Thracians wiped out all the Gauls in the area that means the Triballi would have been killed too.
They weren't because they weren't Gallic.

So CA appearently has it wrong, even in your opinion.

[clench]

Here's the post that seems to have shut OP up on the official forums.

Originally Posted by Nelorix,the Caledonian View Post

Hello infamous Total Whine Center OP.


I happen to live(when in Serbia) near a Tribalii archeological site,and have visited the infamous Hisar hill Triballian tombs.I`ll throw in that i`ve seen a lot of stuff associated with the Scordiscii too.

I can assure you,from non wikipedia sources that the artefacts(relating to the game`s time frame),and artwork ( the few that can be clearly pin pointed to them ) are pretty much completely Celtic in appearance,and influence,with some earlier artwork being blended with Illyrian styles ( like the infamous Vače belt plate).

Even the faction symbol is obviously influenced by the Celts,in appearance ( If my memory serves me correctly,it should be one of the symbols of Esus,a deity associated with continental Celts.)

While CA did depict the generic campaign map general as fully Celtic,they still have Thracian mercenaries in the region,and who is to say they couldn`t have certain Thracian units in their roster? The only thing we`ve seen were unarmored levy spearmen and slingers. And a general`s bodyguard cavarly unit.

What is a more pressing concern for me,is the Scordiscii faction symbol- the one used for the Breuci would have been far more appropriate,as quite a few coins and other metal items attributed to the Scordiscii depict it.


While your complaint might be justifiable if the game was set to be around...400 B.C.,it holds no weight for the game`s time frame,they`ve been too much influenced by the Celts at this point.