CdeC & Site Elders

[Tacticalwithdrawal]

Consilium de Civitate

The Consilium de Civitate is a body of Patricians, ‘Site Elders’ and Senior Staff. All members of this Civitates Council must have at least three months experience as a Civitate and have no active warnings at the time of the election. The members comprise of:

• 8 Patricians are elected by the Curia with new elections happening every 3 months. Elected Patricians have the right to vote in the CdeC.
• 8 Site Elders are elected from the Opifex, Divus, Senatorii and Tribounos by the Curia with new elections happening every 3 months. Elected Site Elders have the right to vote in the CdeC.
• the Senior Staff have no vote in the CdeC but may participate in discussions.
• the Curator has the deciding vote in case of a tie, but otherwise has no normal vote. The Curator has veto powers over any CdeC decision and may also fire any elected CdeC member for non-attendance.
  [INDENT]

The Consilium de Civitate manages the granting and removal of the ranks of Civitate, Artifex and Patrician through elections, a 75% majority of voting members is required in all votes to pass.

Elections will be held for membership to the CdeC every three months. If less than 8 members apply for either elected role then the 'spare' slots can be filled by staff of any rank (with voting rights) until an appropriate member can be found to stand.

Members of the Consilium de Civitate must actively participate in discussions and votes, Senior Staff participation is optional.

The current version of the CdeC legislation has a slight (potential) flaw in it, something we all missed. While the Patricians and Divus must be Patricians to stand for the CdeC, non of the Site Elders have to be.

Let me explain, all of the following honourary 'elder' ranks Opifex, Senatorii and Tribounos can be held by a Civitate or even a Peregrinus, they do not have to be Patricians. Case in point for the current CdeC election is tBP, he is a Senatorii so can stand for the CdeC under these rules, but he is a Civitate not a Patrician.

I would therefore propose the Syntaga is amended as below (new bits in blue):

Consilium de Civitate

The Consilium de Civitate is a body of Patricians, ‘Site Elders’ and Senior Staff. All members of this Civitates Council must have at least three months experience as a Civitate Patrician and have no active warnings at the time of the election. The members comprise of:

• 8 Patricians are elected by the Curia with new elections happening every 3 months. Elected Patricians have the right to vote in the CdeC.
• 8 Site Elders, who must hold Patrician rank, are elected from the Opifex, Divus, Senatorii and Tribounos by the Curia with new elections happening every 3 months. Elected Site Elders have the right to vote in the CdeC.
• the Senior Staff have no vote in the CdeC but may participate in discussions.
• the Curator has the deciding vote in case of a tie, but otherwise has no normal vote. The Curator has veto powers over any CdeC decision and may also fire any elected CdeC member for non-attendance.
  [INDENT]

The Consilium de Civitate manages the granting and removal of the ranks of Civitate, Artifex and Patrician through elections, a 75% majority of voting members is required in all votes to pass.

Elections will be held for membership to the CdeC every three months. If less than 8 members apply for either elected role then the 'spare' slots can be filled by staff of any rank (with voting rights) until an appropriate member can be found to stand.

Members of the Consilium de Civitate must actively participate in discussions and votes, Senior Staff participation is optional.

[Tom Paine]

"at least three months experience as a Civitate Patrician"
Why? Being of Patrician rank, or at most 1 month experience, is enough; 3 months is only neccessary when we're talking citizens. Excluding that, I support this Bill, but that needs sorting before I will do so officially.

[Belisarius]

I support the drunk scot from Stirling.

[Muizer]

something we all missed.

Speak for yourself! Anyway, we must ophold the hierarchy

[Tacticalwithdrawal]

Speak for yourself! Anyway, we must ophold the hierarchy

screw the hierarchy, I want things to work well. All I'm saying is I've noticed a discrepancy and this is a proposed way of fixing it. I'm quite willing to hear that the Curia is happy with it and want to allow Civs and (potentially) Peregrinus to vote on Patrician and Civitate memberships.

I support the drunk scot from Stirling.

is that a flame :hmmm:

[Fabolous]

I don't support your first change, but I do support your second. Three months as a Patrician? Thats uneeded. Either one month as a patrican or three months as a civitate.

The second change is excellent and needed, in my mind.

[Ragabash]

I don't see a reasons why we should divine CdeC members between site Elders and regular Patricians, by giving them both 8 seats instead of choosing 16 most capable from both.

But I do support the current changes though.

[Tacticalwithdrawal]

ok, first change removed

Consilium de Civitate

The Consilium de Civitate is a body of Patricians, ‘Site Elders’ and Senior Staff. All members of this Civitates Council must have at least three months experience as a Civitate and have no active warnings at the time of the election. The members comprise of:

• 8 Patricians are elected by the Curia with new elections happening every 3 months. Elected Patricians have the right to vote in the CdeC.
• 8 Site Elders, who must hold Patrician rank, are elected from the Opifex, Divus, Senatorii and Tribounos by the Curia with new elections happening every 3 months. Elected Site Elders have the right to vote in the CdeC.
• the Senior Staff have no vote in the CdeC but may participate in discussions.
• the Curator has the deciding vote in case of a tie, but otherwise has no normal vote. The Curator has veto powers over any CdeC decision and may also fire any elected CdeC member for non-attendance.
  [INDENT]

The Consilium de Civitate manages the granting and removal of the ranks of Civitate, Artifex and Patrician through elections, a 75% majority of voting members is required in all votes to pass.

Elections will be held for membership to the CdeC every three months. If less than 8 members apply for either elected role then the 'spare' slots can be filled by staff of any rank (with voting rights) until an appropriate member can be found to stand.

Members of the Consilium de Civitate must actively participate in discussions and votes, Senior Staff participation is optional.

[Ragabash]

A bit altered version from Tacticalwithdrawal proposal.

Consilium de Civitate

The Consilium de Civitate is a body of Patricians, ‘Site Elders’ and Senior Staff. All members of this Civitates Council must have at least three months experience as a Civitate and have no active warnings at the time of the election. The members comprise of:

• 16 Most voted Patricians and Site Elders who hold Patrician rank are elected by the Curia with new elections happening every 3 months. Elected Patricians have the right to vote in the CdeC.
• 8 Site Elders, who must hold Patrician rank, are elected from the Opifex, Divus, Senatorii and Tribounos by the Curia with new elections happening every 3 months. Elected Site Elders have the right to vote in the CdeC.
• the Senior Staff have no vote in the CdeC but may participate in discussions.
• the Curator has the deciding vote in case of a tie, but otherwise has no normal vote. The Curator has veto powers over any CdeC decision and may also fire any elected CdeC member for non-attendance.
  [INDENT]

The Consilium de Civitate manages the granting and removal of the ranks of Civitate, Artifex and Patrician through elections, a 75% majority of voting members is required in all votes to pass.

Elections will be held for membership to the CdeC every three months. If less than 8 members apply for either elected role then the 'spare' slots can be filled by staff of any rank (with voting rights) until an appropriate member can be found to stand.

Members of the Consilium de Civitate must actively participate in discussions and votes, Senior Staff participation is optional.

[Fabolous]

A bit altered version from Tacticalwithdrawal proposal.

How about more like:

Consilium de Civitate

The Consilium de Civitate is a body of Patricians, ‘Site Elders’ and Senior Staff. All members of this Civitates Council must have at least three months experience as a Civitate and have no active warnings at the time of the election. The members comprise of:

• 16 Patricians are elected by the Curia with new elections happening every 3 months. Elected Patricians have the right to vote in the CdeC.
• 8 Site Elders, who must hold Patrician rank, are elected from the Opifex, Divus, Senatorii and Tribounos by the Curia with new elections happening every 3 months. Elected Site Elders have the right to vote in the CdeC.
• the Senior Staff have no vote in the CdeC but may participate in discussions.
• the Curator has the deciding vote in case of a tie, but otherwise has no normal vote. The Curator has veto powers over any CdeC decision and may also fire any elected CdeC member for non-attendance.
  [INDENT]

The Consilium de Civitate manages the granting and removal of the ranks of Civitate, Artifex and Patrician through elections, a 75% majority of voting members is required in all votes to pass.

Elections will be held for membership to the CdeC every three months. If less than 8 members apply for either elected role then the 'spare' slots can be filled by staff of any rank (with voting rights) until an appropriate member can be found to stand.

Members of the Consilium de Civitate must actively participate in discussions and votes, Senior Staff participation is optional.

The 8-8 vs. 16 issue is one I really don't care about personally...

[Spartan]

I think the word "elders" should be changed to "veteran leaders" or other words of similar meaning as we discussed in another thread. This is so because there are clearly many here there that would by general definition be considered "site elders"; otherwise I support this proposal.

[imb39]

Well it was done in order to ensure some balance in terms of drawing from various parts of the members. Having seen the numbers who have applied, perhaps this was a non issue...

Also, we need to ensure that Staff get entered as Elders and not as Patricians (or rather that Elders do that... I am tired, but I am sure everyone gets what I mean). This is assuming that we keep some form of differentiation.

[Tom Paine]

I think the prime concern is that all are patricians in fact (and I'm sure my patron will shoot me for that...)

[Ragabash]

Perhaps we should restrict current staff to have only 4 positions in CdeC and the rest would be either Patricians or Elders who hold Patrician rank. :hmmm:

[Spiff]

I wrote this up in another thread which dealt with this very question. Aside from tBP, there will be basically no one in the future who is a site elder but not Patrician (and tBP will be a patrician soon enough no doubt)

But anyway:

Consilium de Civitate

Function:
The Consilium de Civitate manages the granting and removal of the ranks of Civitate, Artifex and Patrician through votes as per the Patronization section of the Syntagma. In all CdeC votes associated with these ranks, a 75% majority of voting members is required in order to pass.

The CdeC may also function as an advisory body to the staff of TWC in matters concerning the Curia and its Citizens.

Membership:
The Consilium de Civitate is primarily an elected body of Patricians. The full membership of the CdeC comprises of:

• 16 elected Patricians, who may discuss and vote on all matters within the CdeC forums.
• Senior Staff, who may discuss all matters within the CdeC forums, but have no normal vote.
• The Syntagma Curator, who may take part in all CdeC discussions, and has the deciding vote in cases of a tie, but otherwise has no normal vote. The Curator has veto powers over any CdeC decision and may also fire any elected CdeC member for non-attendance.

Elected members of the Consilium de Civitate must actively participate in discussions and votes, Senior Staff participation is optional.

Elections:
Elections will be held for membership to the CdeC every three months as per the Curial Elections section of the Syntagma, with the added requirement that candidates hold the basic rank of Patrician and have no Staff warnings at the time of election.

If less than 16 eligible Patricians apply in the candidates thread, the 'spare' positions can be filled by staff of any rank (with normal voting rights) until appropriate Patricians can be found to stand for election.

Divided into specific sections, groups site elders and patricians together, adds some needed depth to the Elections.

[Spartan]

That is good however I have been sleepwalking before as I was not aware the Curator had supreme veto authority without an override component for the CdeC, like "super majority" or something. Moreover I think the CdeC should elect its own leader from among its ranks and who should be responsible operations and records. I think the Curator has a lot on the plate already.

[Spiff]

The curator doesnt have much power really, as a senior member of staff, if his veto position was unpopular, the veto could be vetoed. Also Curator has the ability to appoint a Pro-Curator to take on his duties, if that appointment was based on the result of a standard curial election, there would be no harm

[Spartan]

Hmmm... Given that a 75% affirmative vote is needed for any action on the CdeC I'm not sure a veto would be warranted unless we go for unanimous override to be honest.

[Kagemusha]

I support this.Its basicly the same changes i proposed here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...5&postcount=42

I think one issue still remains.Should the Senior staff have a vote also? They have always had it before and i dont think there is need to prevent them from voting now either. Opinions? Also what the senior staff think about the issue themselves?

[Mímirswell]

I do not desire a vote on the council.