barbarian fight animations vs legionairres

[blace]

just wondering if they are both the same because they both have swords or if there will be variation. i think it would be cool to see the barbarians doing wild swings and ferocious attacks as opposed to the cold and calculated legionairres.

[Archilles]

There are no differents....

Legionares fight the same way than all the other sword fighting units...

Hoplites the same way like ALL the other units with spear... So they are holding their hoplon like all the german units in the middle... looks so ugly

[SacredBoltgun]

The stabbing of the legionaries is definitly in, and i thing the fighting style of barbarians is different=)

[osros]

The stabbing of the legionaries is definitly in, and i thing the fighting style of barbarians is different=)

Not sure on the Legionaries, they do have the stabbing stance for sure, but I seen them come out swinging, from what little close ups we had, I sure stabbing is there also. But I think all have the same moves but in the case of there Barbarians they are not in a stabbing stance as like the Romans are. I really need to go back and see some Barbarian vids its been a while.

[killua]

From Jacks QA thread

Do all units of the same weapon type have the same animation? Will there be musicians in the game?
The answer to these two questions go together and this is going to be a fairly detailed explanation. There are no musicians on the battlefield, though there will be the sound of musical instruments, and units of the same weapon type will share animations. Why? Because we have an animation memory budget. Because we want the game to be playable on a wide variety of machines we have a set limit of how many animations we can fit into memory for the game. With that limit we have to plan very carefully in how we make use of it. With our emphasis on the human face, and getting more emotion on the battlefield we have made a lot of animations relating to that, as well as managing to get in almost double the number of animations compared to Shogun 2. If we put in different animation sets for the same weapon type, we would have to cut out most of the flavour and any variety in animations we have to make it all fit in the memory budget. Musicians also didn't make it for a similar reason, we are really cramming the animations in and unfortunately there is not the memory budget to fit them in.

[Menumorut]

From Jacks QA thread

Do all units of the same weapon type have the same animation? Will there be musicians in the game?



The answer to these two questions go together and this is going to be a fairly detailed explanation. There are no musicians on the battlefield, though there will be the sound of musical instruments, and units of the same weapon type will share animations. Why? Because we have an animation memory budget. Because we want the game to be playable on a wide variety of machines we have a set limit of how many animations we can fit into memory for the game. With that limit we have to plan very carefully in how we make use of it. With our emphasis on the human face, and getting more emotion on the battlefield we have made a lot of animations relating to that, as well as managing to get in almost double the number of animations compared to Shogun 2. If we put in different animation sets for the same weapon type, we would have to cut out most of the flavour and any variety in animations we have to make it all fit in the memory budget. Musicians also didn't make it for a similar reason, we are really cramming the animations in and unfortunately there is not the memory budget to fit them in.

Sounds fair what he said, but it still had to be 3/4 animations based on civilizations...Romans, Hellenistic World, Barbarians and maybe eastern factions

[Lavrentivs]

I wondered this myself actually, but I think they may be the same since they mentioned doing animations (phalanx rally point) in terms of sword vs sword, sword vs spear and shield etc.

However, I personally think the idea of tribesmen swinging swords around like madmen is something that was fabricated by the Romans to make their enemy look inferior, just as the French and Germans are usually represented as useless soldiers in Sharpe and WW2 movies.

I think both you and I know that Rome's enemies weren't stupid. After fighting the Romans for at least 500 years, you would have thought that they would have developed their own tactics and fighting techniques. We even have instances of 'barbarians' fighting in disciplined 'phalanxes' (in the context of a formation of men rather than a hellenic phalanx), such as the Helvetii at Bibracte. I've forgotten a lot of Caesar's commentaries, but I think he also remarks on the ferocity and discipline of Ariovistus' germanic warriors.



When we look at some of the better-equipped gallic warriors, we can actually see how similar they were to Roman legionaries. The heavily armed gallic and italic warriors the Romans faced were certainly the main influence for the development of their infantry tactics.

Personally, I think that gallic tribesmen from the warrior caste would have fought with the same effective cut and thrust technique. These were experienced fighters, they wouldn't have thrown their lives away needlessly, in my opinion.

[CDR Hurricane]

We have already seen that there are different animations for two handed spear vs. one handed spear fighting from the Greek States video (not talking about pikes here). So there is clearly room for variation in the animations of a weapon type. Maybe they will split swords into short and long subtypes for the animation style, but obviously barbarians with both short swords and shields would use them like Romans.

[Jester]

when he says "share" it doesnt really mean that all units of the same weapon type have exactly the same possible pool of animations, or does it?

to me it sounds like they will share some animations but there could also be some unique ones


the roman legionnaires and sword wielding barbarians could both have the same overhand slash. but only the romans have a unique stabbing animation, while the barbarians could have an additional unique horizontal slash

thoughts?

[CDR Hurricane]

thoughts?

I would prefer to think lifting people off the ground like that is a special unit thing, and not something every spear levy can do, so I agree.

[Lavrentivs]

I think the 'barbarians' should have a thrusting technique too, they weren't mindless berserkers from some fantasy game, these were experienced warriors. The Romans wouldn't have been the only ones to figure out that thrusting was better than slashing.

[Jester]

I think the 'barbarians' should have a thrusting technique too, they weren't mindless berserkers from some fantasy game, these were experienced warriors. The Romans wouldn't have been the only ones to figure out that thrusting was better than slashing.

that was just an example though

[blace]

ohh i know that the warrior elite of the Gallic tribes were excellent warriors who could fight just as well if not better than any roman but they were more ferocious fighters and not in a bad way. that ferocity could give them quite the edge in combat

[Dominian]

They have the same team as they had on Shogun 2 and Empire and the same team has to do a lot more animations for different combinations of units this time, since there are so many more different types of units in the game now.

I also believe that an Iceni didn't wield his one-hand sword any different than a roman legionary. Why? Because barbarians aren't wildlings from some fantasy universe. We have all sorts of archaeological evidence of fortifications, art and weapons of those people. The romans were ahead of them in some cultural aspects like architecture, organization of a state and reading/writing. They used those things to portray the men they called barbarians as inferiors, but on the battlefield the soldiers of the tribes were just as formidable in equipment and organization as the romans.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Each weapon type will share animations, but that doesn't mean that each unit armed with a spear has the same TYPE of spear. A barbarian and a Roman may have two completely different sets of animations, because they use two different types of swords. No different than how there were different types of firearms in the previous game, or different types of spear in M2TW, or different types of Yari in Shogun 2.

I doubt that Jack meant each class of soldier uses the exact same animations.

[Archilles]

Each weapon type will share animations, but that doesn't mean that each unit armed with a spear has the same TYPE of spear. A barbarian and a Roman may have two completely different sets of animations, because they use two different types of swords. No different than how there were different types of firearms in the previous game, or different types of spear in M2TW, or different types of Yari in Shogun 2.

I doubt that Jack meant each class of soldier uses the exact same animations.

He mean it
You can clearly see it by the hoplites and the phalangites -
Hoplites doent hold their hoplon in the right way
And the phalangites when they fight only with swords they hold the shield like the romans :p

Deal with it - swird animations and spear animation... thats all :p ( of course there is axe and so on)

[Archilles]

Each weapon type will share animations, but that doesn't mean that each unit armed with a spear has the same TYPE of spear. A barbarian and a Roman may have two completely different sets of animations, because they use two different types of swords. No different than how there were different types of firearms in the previous game, or different types of spear in M2TW, or different types of Yari in Shogun 2.

I doubt that Jack meant each class of soldier uses the exact same animations.

He mean it
You can clearly see it by the hoplites and the phalangites -
Hoplites doent hold their hoplon in the right way
And the phalangites when they fight only with swords they hold the shield like the romans :p

Deal with it - swird animations and spear animation... thats all :p ( of course there is axe and so on)

[Modestus]

He mean it
You can clearly see it by the hoplites and the phalangites -
Hoplites doent hold their hoplon in the right way
And the phalangites when they fight only with swords they hold the shield like the romans :p

Deal with it - swird animations and spear animation... thats all :p ( of course there is axe and so on)

I agree Lusted clearly stated that......

units of the same weapon type will share animations.

And this is exactly how Warscape does things, you take a model in this case a Sword model and from that you can create different sword units by re-texturing and moving parts around such as a different shield but all will tend to have the same animations and all will tend to fight in essentially the same way.

This can take you so far but as I already pointed out in another thread if you need a more complex or unit specific animation such as a Testudo the Legoland approach will be found wanting and you will only get a poor approximation of a Testudo.

This will happen with other unit types such as spear units and a more historically accurate animation for holding a shield or a spear for a specific unit will not exist.

[DogSoldierSPQR]

I agree Lusted clearly stated that......

units of the same weapon type will share animations.

And this is exactly how Warscape does things, you take a model in this case a Sword model and from that you can create different sword units by re-texturing and moving parts around such as a different shield but all will tend to have the same animations and all will tend to fight in essentially the same way.

This can take you so far but as I already pointed out in another thread if you need a more complex or unit specific animation such as a Testudo the Legoland approach will be found wanting and you will only get a poor approximation of a Testudo.

This will happen with other unit types such as spear units and a more historically accurate animation for holding a shield or a spear for a specific unit will not exist.

Just wait until CA develops a new engine, then there will be no end to the amount of animation you can have as CA will design that new modern engine to cater to every need. This is obviously an engine limit, an engine that has been around for how long? Designed around 5 years ago?

I hope CA will/is working on a new engine as we speak behind the scenes. CA knows they need it but it's all about allocating funds and people to work on it. If Rome 2 is a success, there is no doubt in my mind that CA will use those lovely funds to put it towards a new engine. When Warscape was created, there was no need for so many animations and the TW series has moved rapidly onwards since then. I guarantee you anything, once CA gets a new engine done, it won't have any of these limitations that we see now as it'll be suited to every TW need and will be focused on using multi-core as well. CA is limited by their engine and even then, look at how much they have improved it since Shogun 2.

[Aymer de Valence]

but on the battlefield the soldiers of the tribes were just as formidable in equipment and organization as the romans.

Yes exactly, Celtic swords were some of the finest from this period