Campaign,battles and missilles-What has changed in 2.6

[Sertorio]

Having been a part of the Beta testing, there are a few points you might find valuable when fighting your battles in 2.6.

Missiles

Friendly fire from archers has been resolve or greatly reduced by archer being now more accurate.
Javelins and similar missiles like the pilum have now less effect when thrown against other unit frontally specially heavy protected infantry.
They have still great effect against lightly protected infantry or cavalry, but for best effect, factions relying on missile infantry like the romans need to resort to more movement from the cohorts finishing with deadly thrown missile/charge on the backs of committed infantry.
I that situation you can even sometimes get a nice rout out of them.
So in short to maximum javelin effect, move more and throw on flank or back if engaging heavy infantry. Work less with fire at will.
Have a nice battle.

Battle balance and Battle Mechanics

Battle balance has been done on medium, so you might want to keep on those settings before going to high. I think you will find it challenging enough.
As i had never played Rome before and mainly tested the Roman campaign i could not see great differences between 2.5 and 2.5 however:
AI units will usually have a good level of experience and present a good challenge in general. Elite units will be very hard to beat. Skirmishers and light infantry can be very effective when used on engaged infantry and against cavalry.
Testing non Roman factions i very much used the same setup i used for 2.5.
Cavalry remains important to the hammer and anvil tactics but movement of the infantry units is now more important to get optimal effect of the missiles.
In order to resolve issues with archers in 2.5, infantry had the shield upgraded so in essence infantry has now more defence stats. I believe that now a player needs to pay more attention to the details that can turn a slow grind into a steady rout.
The key essence is timing and avoiding a full encirclement of the AI army.
Most of the time my first priority is to drain energy from the AI.
I make them march towards me deploy a first line in guard mode and absorb the first charge of the enemy units. Now it's time to...wait.
I usually deploy in a double line or double phalanx if you prefer. So now as my first line is fighting the AI, my second will either reinforce the first or envelop the flanks. Nothing new here but the key is I have time. I don't need to rush my units, i need the AI to become tired while i move on the flanks, place my cavalry for rear charges move my archer/slinger units for optimal positions...Off course while this his happening i am loosing men on my first line, but that is the compromise.
As the enemy units become tired and exhausted and have probably committed his second line, I make my move.
I charge the flanks and rear of some units, fire with archers and slingers on others, trying to create the highest havoc possible.
I take the guardmode off for my first line and have them attack the enemy line also. By now i will probably have achieved a few routs and it is a question of time for the rest.



The Campaign and enemy stacks

On my tested campaign i have felt the AI behaving in a very agressive fashion, wich conbined with the revised economy has extended the the abilty of the AI of fielding balanced armies and recovering from losses . Thoug i havent seen massive stacks, the number of AI stacks can still be high, and having several factions at your borders cam become troublesome specialy in middle/late game.I order the reduce the effects of that situation and better my game experience i took the following steps:

Build fortifications. Having two or three factions invading your territory on a once a turn basis can become tiresome. Building forts that can limit the access to your territory helps managing the number of battles you have to fight each turn.

Defensive Campaigns. The second line of defence, mostly autoresolve battles over the AI stacks that besiege the frontier forts. Those armies are usually easily retrained. The objective of this is again managing the number of battle you need to fight each turn.

Ofensive Campaign. Now, this is what requires my full atention. Those are the battles i comand myself, leading my army into enemy land. Now, something i believe is important is RS2, is the size of your ofensive army. If i want avoid the grind that comes with invading with not enough resources, i will lead at least three to four stacks on my campaign. I will brigade and restack my units. instead of retraining, fresh units are levied and added to the offensive army.

To be continued

[Darth Bane1]

Yes, I noticed this. Personally I think it's very good. Archers are still deadly, but much more from behind or the unshielded right side. The arrow volleys are now much more concentraded than before. There it looked like they were flying all over the place.

[Sertorio]

Thread updated

[Love Mountain]

How do you deal with cavalry shortfalls? I know a lot of people play Hammer&Anvil, what do you do if your cavalry has taken higher than expected losses?

[Sertorio]

Apart from skirmishing cavalry which i now never leave at fire_at_will, i very much use the cavalry exactly how i used it in 2.5.
Having unexpected losses in cavalry will lead to a more infantry atriction battle with more casualties and maybe some doubt about the outcome...which is very good, you can loose a battle in RS 2.6

[msctx92]

For the most part: nailed what i've been thinking since replaying through RSII since the day of 2.6 release.
I haven't really been an active poster on this forum, however i've been playing Roma Surrectum since it's initial mod launch and it's exhausted several hundred hours out of me into RTW.

With that being said: I've been playing on H/H and I found it's much better whilst playing the battles, especially the larger, more important ones. ie: the initial roman showdown against hannibal and subsequent fights against the (very nicely stacked) roman rebellion. It's an extremely bloody grind if you don't use advanced infantry maneuvers or make prime use of your cavalry. The latter being the option of choice for myself and has been since RTW, all along through RSI, RSII, and has not changed now. (Especially with the extreme armor boost to all the cavalry i've seemingly ran across thus far)

In any case, I found H&V tactics a bit *too* successful on Medium, so Hard seems to be where i'll be staying. You can very easily lose your cavalry to the AI cavalry unless you support them.

[Pesticide]

what buildings are good to build first few turns ?

[Sertorio]

I use the same construction basis that i have used in 2.5, but you are now expected to have less income, so be prepared to choose what are you gonna build and if you gonna build at all in that turn. I usualy start with roads, less expensive buildings that improve trade and taxes, and armour and weapon upgrades buildings.
But the main diference from 2.5 is more expensive buildings and less income. So you realy need to try to make the correct decision about what to build.

[Theoroshia]

As a former/ex-beta tester, I'd like to add my two cents as well.

1) Roads. Roads are huge. Trade is one of the best ways to make money, and better roads allow your armies to move significantly faster. This helps make up for the nerf to movement points.

2) Temples. The differences between temples is vastly different now. It's often not efficient to build all the temples in a city. I tend to build temples only if I need their specific bonus.

3) Army balance. Cavalry is a bit weaker, while skirmishers are a bit stronger. I tend to bring four archers, two light peltasts and two units of slingers with any army I have. I keep the slingers and peltasts in reserve as a mobile reactionary force, while using archers to whittle away at high value targets. Be careful shooting at heavy infantry, as a lot of them gained more points in shields/armor. I usually only bring a unit or two of heavy cavalry, to attack retreating units.

Hope the tips help.

[FeralBlueBird]

I tend to bring four archers, two light peltasts and two units of slingers with any army I have.

Sounds OP even for VH

[Love Mountain]

As a former/ex-beta tester, I'd like to add my two cents as well.

Just to add on to that.

1) Roads. Roads are huge. Trade is one of the best ways to make money, and better roads allow your armies to move significantly faster. This helps make up for the nerf to movement points.

In my opinion, Roads are much better now beacuse of the trade they improve, the movement points are not that important. Why? because in my experience, even at 200+ turns into a campaign, The enemy AI never develops Roads very well. Therefore, my movement will always be crippled in offensive actions. HOWEVER, with the recent MAJOR nerf to Econ style of play(river ports cost 4,000 denarii now as opposed to 768 or 1124), Roads are some of the cheapest economic boosters to your city. And therefore should always be prioritized first.

2) Temples. The differences between temples is vastly different now. It's often not efficient to build all the temples in a city. I tend to build temples only if I need their specific bonus.

I think this was always the case. Temples always had a -% tax unless they are economy temples. I always built Economy temples first because they offered excellent bonuses for a very low cost. Now that econ temples are finally nerfed(just like everything related to the economy) you should never build Temples unless you need that extra 5-10% of happiness to keep very high taxation.

As for my own observations...

1) Cavalry is even more pivotal now than ever. In fact, I would go as far as to say that All-Infantry armies are now nonviable. However, I have not played with every faction yet.
2) Economy is majorly nerfed. Before you could play very passively for 30-40 turns to build up an absolutely monstrous economy while you're building an army. Now? I have to say it is impossible(think Shontelle song's hook). You either build army or eco. Not both. At least not in the early game. If anything, I have to say that the campaign heavily rewards well played aggressiveness. That means going for rebel or enemy settlements fast and hard. Additional settlements will give you more income, faster. Which you will need to build up that monster economy like you could in previous RS versions.

For specifics. Most economic cost 3.5-4.5 thousand denarii. Previously, they cost .8-1.8 thousand denarii. This is a monstrous difference. Before, in the Roman campaign you could afford to build a large foundry, while building eco structures in every single city in the first 20 turns. This gives Roman players an extremely easy starting power base. Now, the first 80 turns just got a helluva lot difficult. The Roman survival guide is completely obsolete now for 0 turn or 1 turn Rome Campaign.

3) Eco play in small nations that don't start off being in a war are now a lot more difficult to play with. You must be extremely aggressive and careful in the first 20 turns.

4) Infantry is now much more dependable. They will rarely die or break.

[Kenny Works]

Wow. I have to ask: are we playing the same game? Roma Surrectum II 2.6, right?

In my H/H Rome game, I'm 27 turns in and my economy is blown. Within another five turns, I'll hit the money script - and I mean hit it. I have 127,000 denarii now and I can't build any more buildings anywhere because all the cities are stacked full of buildings. Yeah, ports cost 4000 and mines cost 10,000 but what does it matter 'cause in Roma, baby, the streets are paved with gold!!!!!

I could buy my way to a victory at this point.

And all the factions seem to be terrified of me. Every year or so, Carthage will send A SINGLE UNIT - just one - to Corsica to get stomped on by my entire army that's stationed there. If ever a threat comes, I can easily recruit another four legions (I have two now.) I gave up my Greek colony - so the Basic Guide is not that terribly useless - and I'll soon station another army in Spain.

Or I could just sit here and blow the script. This economy is much easier than 2.5. Much easier.

Screenshot added. My taxes are on high - except Rome which is VH. My leaders are good and my economy is "balanced." I am dumping all my money into building - because that's what I had to do in 2.5 to even survive. I did cut back on my armies/legions to 2. That's it. And this is a new turn where I built every possible building I could:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Love Mountain]

Wow. I have to ask: are we playing the same game? Roma Surrectum II 2.6, right?

In my H/H Rome game, I'm 27 turns in and my economy is blown. Within another five turns, I'll hit the money script - and I mean hit it. I have 127,000 denarii now and I can't build any more buildings anywhere because all the cities are stacked full of buildings. Yeah, ports cost 4000 and mines cost 10,000 but what does it matter 'cause in Roma, baby, the streets are paved with gold!!!!!

Congrats on squashing the rebellion and defeating Hannibal. I have to say that it's probably because of the lack of pressure my friend. I am currently trying to hold Dyrrachium, Emporirae, and I only just squashed the rebellion and captured Genoa. Carthage occasionally sends a stack to Caralis but that's it. I think it's mostly lack of pressure that's causing you to have such a good economy. For me right now, my income is a measly 12k Denarii each turn, but then I have to constantly shuffle 6-7 stacks around Spain and Epirus. I think if I played passively I would get a much more obscene economy right after the Socii rebellions and Hannibal's army.

Nevertheless, what was your impression of the first 20 turns? And what are your comments about the new unit stats?

[Kenny Works]

Congrats on squashing the rebellion and defeating Hannibal. I have to say that it's probably because of the lack of pressure my friend. I am currently trying to hold Dyrrachium, Emporirae, and I only just squashed the rebellion and captured Genoa. Carthage occasionally sends a stack to Caralis but that's it. I think it's mostly lack of pressure that's causing you to have such a good economy. For me right now, my income is a measly 12k Denarii each turn, but then I have to constantly shuffle 6-7 stacks around Spain and Epirus. I think if I played passively I would get a much more obscene economy right after the Socii rebellions and Hannibal's army.

Nevertheless, what was your impression of the first 20 turns? And what are your comments about the new unit stats?

To be honest, I was expecting a brutal economy like 2.5. I didn't recruit any units during the rebellion, and focused on using the units Rome starts with. Every unit available was put to use. The Rebels chewed their way through a lot of those units and I kept merging what was left together until I had one strong stack on experienced units. I lost 6 battles but won the war.

I dumped all my money into building. Markets, trade expeditions (which only take 1 turn to build), ports, roads, anything that increases taxes and trade. I let Greece go because I can't ever see to find a way to hold it. I did manage to hold Spain.

20 turns in, I was finding it all too easy - then all hell broke loose. Carthage landed a stack and a half on Corsica. I won the battle but had to send the army back to Rome to be replenished. Carthage immediately attacked again. The Greek Cities attacked in Sicily. The Averni attacked in Spain. Now I do need six legions and fortunately I have the money to raise them. And the large armory in Rome ensures they will be good troops.

[msctx92]

Congrats on squashing the rebellion and defeating Hannibal. I have to say that it's probably because of the lack of pressure my friend. I am currently trying to hold Dyrrachium, Emporirae, and I only just squashed the rebellion and captured Genoa. Carthage occasionally sends a stack to Caralis but that's it. I think it's mostly lack of pressure that's causing you to have such a good economy. For me right now, my income is a measly 12k Denarii each turn, but then I have to constantly shuffle 6-7 stacks around Spain and Epirus. I think if I played passively I would get a much more obscene economy right after the Socii rebellions and Hannibal's army.

Nevertheless, what was your impression of the first 20 turns? And what are your comments about the new unit stats?

Yeah in every campaign i've played in 2.5 and now in 2.6 even, it's been roughly the same: destroy hannibal first turn with the current standing army (H/H) it's a fairly straightforward task but helps if you throw the few units that start in Roma to reinforce flaminius. (No buildings are being constructed until after the Socii and Hannibal's expulsion from northern italy, btw) Use all funds gained towards retraining and if necessary making new cavalry/triarii units. I simply move both cornelius scipio's from their current location back to italy central/italy southern to very quickly eliminate the Rebellion's forces in a matter of turns after they spawn. Emporiae gets left with a token garrison and usually gets occupied by carthage and reoccupied by me after the Rebellion's defeat.

Oh btw, one of the best 1st turn investments is having Roma make 6-7 Trireme's right from the get-go. They allow you transport as well as early game naval dominance over Carthage. I typically keep Carthage itself blockaded with a full stack of them after the Rebellion. Dyrrachium holds it's position with it's starting force for 30~ turns until i'm able to send a legion over there w/fortifications.

All of this happens within 30-40 turns maximum and I honestly haven't felt the bad economy everyone's talking about. Like others have stated; just build roads/mines and markets if applicable but the first thing I do personally is make sure the people sit at an even yellow or green happiness all the while being taxed on High. (Make use of the very great Temple of Jupiter's to accomplish this, and Wells)

[Kenny Works]

Nevertheless, what was your impression of the first 20 turns? And what are your comments about the new unit stats?

I thought I'd add a response to this. I like the adjusted unit stats. I always thought Roman cavalry was a bit overpowered; now they perform about like I'd expect them to. I don't spam archers and rely on velites during the early period, so really nothing's changed that I can tell - but then, I used to use the edu's and my battles played differently.I'm coming to terms with the garrison script, and I use siege engines and the occasional spy to open a city. Overall, the patch seems more about fixes, new graphics, and the new legion system which I haven't got to yet.I haven't been forced to use force diplomacy yet, but I see that in my future - as everyone faction around me has ganged up on me.

[mav61]

Having been a part of the Beta testing, there are a few points you might find valuable when fighting your battles in 2.6.

Missiles

Friendly fire from archers has been resolve or greatly reduced by archer being now more accurate.
Javelins and similar missiles like the pilum have now less effect when thrown against other unit frontally specially heavy protected infantry.
They have still great effect against lightly protected infantry or cavalry, but for best effect, factions relying on missile infantry like the romans need to resort to more movement from the cohorts finishing with deadly thrown missile/charge on the backs of committed infantry.
I that situation you can even sometimes get a nice rout out of them.
So in short to maximum javelin effect, move more and throw on flank or back if engaging heavy infantry. Work less with fire at will.
Have a nice battle.

Battle balance

Battle balance has been done on medium, so you might want to keep on those settings before going to high. I think you will find it challenging enough.

The Campaign and enemy stacks

On my tested campaign i have felt the AI behaving in a very agressive fashion, wich conbined with the revised economy has extended the the abilty of the AI of fielding balanced armies and recovering from losses . Thoug i havent seen massive stacks, the number of AI stacks can still be high, and having several factions at your borders cam become troublesome specialy in middle/late game.I order the reduce the effects of that situation and better my game experience i took the following steps:

Build fortifications. Having two or three factions invading your territory on a once a turn basis can become tiresome. Building forts that can limit the access to your territory helps managing the number of battles you have to fight each turn.

Defensive Campaigns. The second line of defence, mostly autoresolve battles over the AI stacks that besiege the frontier forts. Those armies are usually easily retrained. The objective of this is again managing the number of battle you need to fight each turn.

Ofensive Campaign. Now, this is what requires my full atention. Those are the battles i comand myself, leading my army into enemy land. Now, something i believe is important is RS2, is the size of your ofensive army. If i want avoid the grind that comes with invading with not enough resources, i will lead at least three to four stacks on my campaign. I will brigade and restack my units. instead of retraining, fresh units are levied and added to the offensive army.

To be continued

Yeah with the army stacks this is where RTR7 actually takes it away from RS a little, units are expensive in RTR but if you have played it you'll know its not that hard to get your economy going to support these units, and the build time longer for elite units example {Spartan Hoplites 30 turns to build} i think they found a good mix there no more massive stacks example fight two battles knock out two full stack armies..and have time recover without 3 new full stacks threatening you the very next turn as is the way of RS2 to me thats the only thing that lets it down slightly....

[Sertorio]

Thread updated on battle mechanics section.

[nhinhonhinho]

I notice in custom battle mode the Roman are even more imbalance then before with every legion have <55 defensive point which in turn much more than even cataphract or even elephants!

[tone]

I notice in custom battle mode the Roman are even more imbalance then before with every legion have <55 defensive point which in turn much more than even cataphract or even elephants!

We probably ought to make a custom EDU specifically for custom battles as the default EDU is balanced for the player paying against Rome... this will obviously result in severe imbalance if you play custom battles as Rome