New Cavalry Mechanics

**jsully16** · August 24, 2013, 10:58 PM

I was watching Heir of Carthage's channel and overheard him talking about his time playing the prologue in his Uesugi campaign. He says that in his play-through of the prologue, he noticed that the function of cavalry is much different. In past games, you use them for hammer and anvil attacks, and after their charge, you'd be using them correctly if you pulled them out to charge again.

He says that they'd get slaughtered if you tried that in Rome 2, and that once you charge your cavalry into battle, they're committed. Pulling out of that fight is then retreating, and you'd lose a lot of men doing so unless you had a clear escape path.

He went on to say how there are a few different kinds of cavalry. "Shock" cavalry which have a higher charge, and "Melee" cavalry which have better stats in battle.

This all sounds pretty interesting. It's certainly more realistic. I'm just concerned that fighting the phalanx will be that much more difficult now that cavalry have to stay in the battle with them until one of them are defeated, even if your cavalry hits them from behind. We saw how fast a Levy Pikeman unit would retreat until a hammer-and-anvil attack, but I'm sure the Sacred Band would stand ground, turn around and start poking at horses.

**jamreal18** · August 25, 2013, 12:51 AM

Is it confirmed?

For me thats gamebreaker...

I hope you can pull them out of battle...

**woopedazz** · August 25, 2013, 02:38 AM

Didn't sound that way to me. It sounded more like you have to plan an escape route if you plan to withdraw. If you barrel in to a conflict you're going to get a whole load of horses carried through into the middle that will have a hard time getting out. If you smash in and pull out from a non-fighting group/from the correct angle you will have a better time than just plowing your way into a dead end.

**M2TWRocks** · August 25, 2013, 02:58 AM

This isn't really anything new. The same exact thing can happen in S2TW and past titles. I say this with some authority as I was literally playing S2TW a few hours ago and got my cavalry caught in a similar situation where I couldn't pull them out after charging. It just depends on what angle you attack the enemy from, how tired your cav is, etc. I wouldn't worry too much about this.

**tomux7** · August 25, 2013, 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by jsully16

This all sounds pretty interesting. It's certainly more realistic. I'm just concerned that fighting the phalanx will be that much more difficult now that cavalry have to stay in the battle with them until one of them are defeated, even if your cavalry hits them from behind. We saw how fast a Levy Pikeman unit would retreat until a hammer-and-anvil attack, but I'm sure the Sacred Band would stand ground, turn around and start poking at horses.

I wouldn't call that realistic. Fighting on horseback is harder when you are stationary than fighting on foot. As far as I know most of cavalry (especially lancers) were used to break enemy with initial charge and not stand around since momentum is your only advantage.

**killua** · August 25, 2013, 03:22 AM

As we saw in the phalanx vid with Jack,a cav charge in the back will obliterate most infantry units. Ideally, that is meant to happen every time you charge. The hammer should be decisive and and once you've struck you either rout the unit or you stay in for prolonged combat at which point, depending on the type of cavalry, you've failed or you still have a chance tu put up a decent fight.

**jamreal18** · August 25, 2013, 04:33 AM

How about the gameplay by al? Didnt he pull outthe cavalry when he knows hes at disadvantage?

**fenianmenace** · August 25, 2013, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by jamreal18

How about the gameplay by al? Didnt he pull outthe cavalry when he knows hes at disadvantage?

You're referring to something Al did as an example of sound tactics. Your argument is invalid sir.

**vietanh797** · August 25, 2013, 04:37 AM

at least I hope Thessalian still have their diamond formation. They are the only cavalry master that formation back then and if they have that formation they will be better at changing direction and retreat

**McFlight** · August 25, 2013, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by vietanh797

at least I hope Thessalian still have their diamond formation. They are the only cavalry master that formation back then and if they have that formation they will be better at changing direction and retreat

I'm pretty sure Thessalian cav has diamond formation. It was shown in Al skirmish Macedon vs Rome.

**vietanh797** · August 25, 2013, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by McFlight

I'm pretty sure Thessalian cav has diamond formation. It was shown in Al skirmish Macedon vs Rome.

I do remember but I hope that formation is unique to them not as a tech available for every cavalry units after researched.

**McFlight** · August 25, 2013, 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by vietanh797

I do remember but I hope that formation is unique to them not as a tech available for every cavalry units after researched.

Well Companions have it too, so it could be just a tech available for every cavalry

.

**Dominian** · August 25, 2013, 04:59 AM

Hit and run has been the best use for cavalry since Rome TW because it made sense. They since have reduced the shock impact of cavalry in Empire and Shogun 2 by a lot and from everything I have seen the charge impact has been buffed again for RTW 2. But it would be weird and unrealistic if a rider that isn't caught between many enemies couldn't retreat to charge again. Doing this constantly also makes the game harder and is one of the few micro management things you have to do, which is a good thing to have imho.

I don't think that this is true until I tested it for myself in the released version.

**vietanh797** · August 25, 2013, 05:19 AM

yep that's why I always yell about historically only Thessalian cavalry mastered that formation

**saxdude** · August 25, 2013, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by vietanh797

yep that's why I always yell about historically only Thessalian cavalry mastered that formation

Its just a formation.

**baldrick13** · August 25, 2013, 05:31 AM

no no the incendiary pigs are the best kind of cavalry

**Mwulf** · August 25, 2013, 01:37 PM

In my experience, cavalry were pretty useless in Shogun 2. On hard, they'd consistently get routed by the enemy's basic infantry troops and really only stood a chance against archers (where they'd suffer casualties). Cavalry charges in Medieval 2 and Rome were awesome--just like a hammer. In Shogun 2, though, a cavalry charge would result in killing maybe 5 enemies, tops. No smashing hammer there. Can't say these new mechanics sound terribly different from the Shogun 2 mechanics.

**CptAustus** · August 25, 2013, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Mwulf

In my experience, cavalry were pretty useless in Shogun 2. On hard, they'd consistently get routed by the enemy's basic infantry troops and really only stood a chance against archers (where they'd suffer casualties). Cavalry charges in Medieval 2 and Rome were awesome--just like a hammer. In Shogun 2, though, a cavalry charge would result in killing maybe 5 enemies, tops. No smashing hammer there. Can't say these new mechanics sound terribly different from the Shogun 2 mechanics.

I disagree. If you play right, you can get at least 20 kills on the initial charge with an unexperienced unit. On multiplayer I had some veterans that would kill 40+ men when charging into the back of infantry, and those same units would kill half a cavalry unit constantly.

**Vallon** · August 25, 2013, 01:46 PM

Didn't CA say a while back that the AI of your own cav themselves would pull out after a charge and go back in?

**Dude with the Food** · August 25, 2013, 02:29 PM

As long as when you charge, as soon as contact is made you can tell them to run somewhere behind the enemy and they kill some on charge while keeping momentum to do that. It would be nice to break through enemy lines like that and follow it immediately with an infantry charge to get in the gaps. Then the cavalry can seek out archers and attack from behind and stuff.