Where's the scale, where's the grandness?

[Sandraker]

I can't be the only one who noticed, but something feels wrong about all the battle footage seen so far.
It just doesn't feel "big" to me, regardless of the unit numbers involved. I can't quite put my finger on it, but something seems to be missing to me. It could be the pace, the underlying gameplay, or something wholly different. But to use a cheesy word, I'm missing the "epicness".

Then again, I don't think we've seen the huge scale yet.

[SonOfCrusader76]

Yep, I have to say that I agree. Perhaps the real epic-ness is saved for the main campaign?

[theDaedricPrince]

Sandy, can I call you that? You just gotta wait for the opening results! If the game turns out to be a horribly made game with tons of AI glitches and lots of errors, then you can sue CA for making a bad game

or you can wait for mods..that'll also fix everything <3

[Aeneas Veneratio]

Sandy, can I call you that? You just gotta wait for the opening results! If the game turns out to be a horribly made game with tons of AI glitches and lots of errors, then you can sue CA for making a bad game

or you can wait for mods..that'll also fix everything <3

What the ___? There is a higher chance of me winning the Champions League with me on an one-man team than someone winning that ridiculous lawsuit.

[alhoon]

I believe it has to do that we're used to 10K-15K soldiers fighting so, when the game scales back to smaller units and armies of 2000 vs 2000 men, it feels less epic.

[Sandraker]

I found a moment that shows my perception perfectly: In the recently leaked Gamestar battle footage (which I will not link), at the start you see the Roman army of 15 units and it just looks plain unimpressive. A contributing factor, at least in this bit seems to be the way the units become red blobs at a distance. They look like toys instead of an army.

[Dbx125]

As I said in the other thread. All you've seen so far are videos from the prologue bit, inevitably with easy AI and low stacked units. For example was the Siege of Carthage not epic enough for you? When you get the game you can have all the epic 4vs 4 20,000 unit battles you want.

[Holger Danske]

When you get the game you can have all the epic 4vs 4 20,000 unit battles you want.

You can control a single army of +20,000 soldiers in ETW, so I expect you can do this in RTWII as well...

[caissus]

You can control a single army of +20,000 soldiers in ETW, so I expect you can do this in RTWII as well...

I think the problem with cranking up the army sizes in the campaign is that it messes up the CAI. And presumably the BAI as well.

[TuuSaR]

I think grandness in Rome 2 is more about zooming in, not zooming out to distance.

[Captain W. Handberg]

10k-15k Soldiers where? Did Shogun II have it? Fall of da Samurai? Can't recall.

Anyhow, I might aswell post how to make your battle look epic, judging from my recent ones in Medieval 2, Empire, and Rome.

Speed- Each total war has its own songs when your soldiers are marching. Noteably from medieval and rome, songs such as 'Death Lullaby' and 'Soldiers Chant' fit very well when you line up ten units of heavy infantry, and then zoom in to watch them march across the battlefield at your foes (Shieldwalls make it even more epic!)

Defending- Choosing to play defensively in a battle is also quite atmospheric. Your hundred lines of soldiers idly standing, clattering of armor, and the wait. The eerie music that plays when no order has been issued and your side is completely calm. To see the clouds of dust rise up against the skies as your foes approach, as your lines of ranged units stationed behind the main line rain down their missiles down at your foes, siege weaponry lunging their force at the incoming enemy...

Midst- The middle of the battle, when you and your foes finally lash against eachother, your lines might be broken, and chaos breaks out. What once was a perfect line of discipline and force is now clattering rabble fighting for their lives. In games such as Medieval 2, where morale can be quite high and battles last long, this moment is really beautiful, because there is not much you can do, except to outflank your foes with some cavalry or the little spare units you have! Take this one and use it to enjoy some delicious animations, which surely will be featured in Rome II!

Reorganization- When the battle is done, and the smoke clears, you can see the fruits of your labor. The enemy are scatttered and scurry like rats, and the field is covered in bodies, ready to be picked clean by the vultures; these men are both your former foes, and your own men! Now you have to gather your men once again, as they are blown to every single corner of the map, and you make your best to chase the enemy down.

These four is what have made my earlier battles truely great. Maybe everything won't make an appearance in Rome II, such as Unit sizes, but hopefully that can be modified. An immersion breaker for me is actually how units start in double-time, which prevents the atmospheric marching.
To seem more positive, I believe that battles where naval units disembark will prove really fun and immersive. Just to see your ships crash against the banks of sand with a cracking thud, and then your Marines gathering down at the beach, with missiles raining above their heads in total carnage.

[BunnyPoopCereal]

10k-15k Soldiers where? Did Shogun II have it? Fall of da Samurai? Can't recall.

They were there Just not too often.

[djvandyke]

I must admit the unit sizes are pathetic.
The minimum we should expect is Rome 1 style 240 man units.

[Captain W. Handberg]

I must admit the unit sizes are pathetic.
The minimum we should expect is Rome 1 style 240 man units.

I'd say more than that. Praetorian Cohort in Rome II was like, 240 men and that game is rather old. Some units were even three hundred men, some light infantry if I recall!
Darthmod Empire had units with five hundred men, so why can't Rome II?

[Lockcaps]

I'd say more than that. Praetorian Cohort in Rome II was like, 240 men and that game is rather old. Some units were even three hundred men, some light infantry if I recall!
Darthmod Empire had units with five hundred men, so why can't Rome II?

just change it in preferences, they've explained time and again why the unit sizes are the size they are.

[the_mango55]

I'd say more than that. Praetorian Cohort in Rome II was like, 240 men and that game is rather old. Some units were even three hundred men, some light infantry if I recall!
Darthmod Empire had units with five hundred men, so why can't Rome II?

Max number of troops per unit was 256 in the RTW & M2TW engine.

Also you couldn't control 40 units in that game.

[ToonTotalWar]

This will be easily modified in the game files and will be one of the first sub mods to be released! Probably by me as I too want 240 unit scales etc..

[theDaedricPrince]

I was kidding guys, sheesh xD I'm not going against your opinions. Sorry if it seemed that way

[Sandraker]

I was kidding guys, sheesh xD I'm not going against your opinions. Sorry if it seemed that way

Well it makes you look like a CA defence force guy who can't stand it when people criticise his favourite dev team.

[BanditKS]

I really dont understand why people want 900+ dudes in one unit. it makes them way too large and unwieldy, what if i want a bend in my line? smaller units makes that far easier.
Not to mention the battlefield is limited in size and what about rough terrain and path finding for the AI? or path finding for your own units? what happens when you try to fit a 500 man unit into one siege tower? how long will it take for that unit to pass through that siege tower onto the wall and be given new orders? what happens when you give that unit orders to exit the wall while half of it is still off the wall passing through the siege tower or ladders? does the pathing AI tell the unit to wait on the new orders until its passed through the siege equipment?

What happens if it is strung out from the siege tower, on the wall, on the steps off the wall, down in the streets of the city and enters combat? does the whole unit slow down and put their shields up as if in combat and walk really slowly towards the offending unit? where is the flank of the unit? in the siege tower? on the wall? what if it is in combat on the ground and something attacks it up on the walls? will that break the units moral because it was a flank attack? or is it still attacking the front line and the morale isnt harmed?

Massive unit size can only create more problems, the unit sizes really haven't changed that much since shogun 1 and i think they are just fine.