Campaign map discussion

[MathiasOfAthens]

Mods can merge this with a better thread if they find one but I wanted to discuss this. Its more of a rant mostly. Not really complaining about the game because I do like it. I just have some bad feelings about the campaign map.

First off the campaign map and the battle maps are great. I even like the change in siege maps. Fortified and non-fortified cities. I do think it is better this way. However, my problem is that it does seem like there is a seriously lack of cities and regions on the campaign map. At first (months ago) I thought it would be find with the lack of regions... but after watching Jack Lusteds play through and how quickly he conquered the province of Macedonia (3-4 turns) it cant take much longer for him to conquer the whole world. In game terms it took him 4 years (which is ing ridiculous) but in our time 4 turns isnt that long and seemed weird. I guess at the end of the day you have to ignore the turn counter and pretend its only been a month.

Anyway, I know the thought here was nobody wanted a siege fest. Which is right. Nobody wants that. But people also dont want a quick campaign thats more like the board game where you just move around objects. Europa universalis works great with hundreds of regions but nobody is asking for that many. I think CA changed things with the new minor and major cities. But they could of gone one step further by mixing that more with ETWs cities that had no region borders. If CA just added a few more minor regions around these major regions but made them so small they were almost worthless to defend it wouldnt slow down the game into a siege fest but allow players more freedom in building their empires. Plus with ETWs feature where you can demand a surrender one could also just diplomatically take these small non-fortified regions that are like villages.

If only CA added more minor villages, without walls or defenses the campaign map would seem more alive with features. Hopefully, we can accomplish that with mods.

[fightermedic]

Europa universalis works great with hundreds of regions but nobody is asking for that many.

i sure do ask
the map is seriously lacking provinces and major cities
for example look at massalia, what should be a single important greek city among gaulish tribes with some land around it, is controling something like 1/7 of gaul...

[♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠]

i sure do ask
the map is seriously lacking provinces and major cities
for example look at massalia, what should be a single important greek city among gaulish tribes with some land around it, is controling something like 1/7 of gaul...

Abso-fricken-lutely!
I mean they completely neglected Gallia Transalpina! What should be Narbonensis and Transalpine Gaul is just Tolosa and Massalia. Tolosa is fine, but the whole point of Massalia even existing in this time period was because Rome used them as a gateway to trade into Gaul, and then to protect that trade they took Gallia Transalpina (all the land around the greek outpost city-state), then just took Massalia too. Gallia Transalpina should be a separate faction owned by gauls, with Massalia a tiny region by itself.
Eh, I guess there wouldn't be enough room for that then. This campaign map REALLY isn't big enough. Forget about no. of cities, it just doesn't have enough room

[HusKatten]

Fact is that he took 3 regions in 9 turns. Apolonia and Larissa in Macedon, and Antheia in Thracia. The two first regions were taken since Epirus army was pretty weak after battles with Athens. And since Jack is very aggressive in his gameplay i wouldn't say that is too fast. In the beginning it usualy comes down to the survival of the fittest. When the campaign has been more defined with 30-40 or even less factions, then each individual faction will be more powerful and a blitz would be dangerous.

[MathiasOfAthens]

i sure do ask
the map is seriously lacking provinces and major cities
for example look at massalia, what should be a single important greek city among gaulish tribes with some land around it, is controling something like 1/7 of gaul...

Yeah I agree. I would love at least 350 regions. Major and minor. Gaul itself should be teeming with minor villages within provinces with a major city/town or two.

I hate how CA avoids making the campaign map the best it can be. Its almost like they continue to improve everything except the amount of regions in their games. Rome I was far worse with large provinces but at least modders could easily add in regions.

Fact is that he took 3 regions in 9 turns. Apolonia and Larissa in Macedon, and Antheia in Thracia. The two first regions were taken since Epirus army was pretty weak after battles with Athens. And since Jack is very aggressive in his gameplay i wouldn't say that is too fast. In the beginning it usualy comes down to the survival of the fittest. When the campaign has been more defined with 30-40 or even less factions, then each individual faction will be more powerful and a blitz would be dangerous.

9 years is even worse. .

Your thinking if there were 10 more regions in Northern Greece and each region had its own faction, those factions would all be equal and have the same size armies and it would be harder for Macedon to expand? I disagree. If Ca made it so the factions were all equal and strong then yes but they could have designed them so they are weaker. One standing army of 7 units vs Macedons 15 unit army.

[spooky]

I hate how CA avoids making the campaign map the best it can be. Its almost like they continue to improve everything except the amount of regions in their games. Rome I was far worse with large provinces but at least modders could easily add in regions.

totally agree
CA is lazy in making the map as this game deserves

[Dan113112]

Mods can merge this with a better thread if they find one but I wanted to discuss this. Its more of a rant mostly. Not really complaining about the game because I do like it. I just have some bad feelings about the campaign map.

First off the campaign map and the battle maps are great. I even like the change in siege maps. Fortified and non-fortified cities. I do think it is better this way. However, my problem is that it does seem like there is a seriously lack of cities and regions on the campaign map. At first (months ago) I thought it would be find with the lack of regions... but after watching Jack Lusteds play through and how quickly he conquered the province of Macedonia (3-4 turns) it cant take much longer for him to conquer the whole world. In game terms it took him 4 years (which is ing ridiculous) but in our time 4 turns isnt that long and seemed weird. I guess at the end of the day you have to ignore the turn counter and pretend its only been a month.

Anyway, I know the thought here was nobody wanted a siege fest. Which is right. Nobody wants that. But people also dont want a quick campaign thats more like the board game where you just move around objects. Europa universalis works great with hundreds of regions but nobody is asking for that many. I think CA changed things with the new minor and major cities. But they could of gone one step further by mixing that more with ETWs cities that had no region borders. If CA just added a few more minor regions around these major regions but made them so small they were almost worthless to defend it wouldnt slow down the game into a siege fest but allow players more freedom in building their empires. Plus with ETWs feature where you can demand a surrender one could also just diplomatically take these small non-fortified regions that are like villages.

If only CA added more minor villages, without walls or defenses the campaign map would seem more alive with features. Hopefully, we can accomplish that with mods.

I would welcome more settlements as long as we don't get a siege fest. Also, Jack explained how he took those regions so fast. Epirus was at war with himself, Rome, Athens, and Sparta. His allies probably helped him out a bit in Thrace but I'm not sure. Jack is now in the 250's BC and he hasn't attacked anyone else. By the way, two decades to take Greece is not unfeasible.

[MathiasOfAthens]

I would welcome more settlements as long as we don't get a siege fest. Also, Jack explained how he took those regions so fast. Epirus was at war with himself, Rome, Athens, and Sparta. His allies probably helped him out a bit in Thrace but I'm not sure. Jack is now in the 250's BC and he hasn't attacked anyone else. By the way, two decades to take Greece is not unfeasible.

That is the confusing part.

Two decades to conquer greece is pathetic. Phillip conquered greece in a few years.

9 turns to conquer Epirius is ok... but when the turns represent a year each its stupid. But modders can change this.

And I wouldnt want a siege fest either. But more minor regions, villages mostly, which could grow create more campaign possibilities. More factions (mostly tribes and minor factions like greek states means not every campaign plays out the same way. Plus your more free to evolve your empire this way or that way.

And if the regions are like villages then its more of a battle fest. Not a siege fest. I think CA eliminated the sieges with non-fortified cities. So problem solved. I just dont like conquering one city and immediately taking the whole place. Obviously it isnt like ETW anymore with one region france but...

[Anna_Gein]

Me too I don't like the scale of the map even if it is a (small) improvement. I really hope the map will be moddable.

I think R2 have a lot of features that could be used to avoid the infamous siege and stack spam of late game, even without minor settlements without defensive structures. It will be interesting to see how CA balanced the "power" resource and the stack limit it is suppose to include in link with settlement garrisons and how far this system could be used. By the way is the surrender option during siege still present ?

[djvandyke]

Something I have learned over the years is that more is not always better.
I see little benefit in an increase in settlements.
The more there are, the less important each becomes.

[spartan_warrior]

Considering the vanilla campaign map of Rome 2, I actually think it's quite good, of course that is in comparison with other vanilla Total War campaign maps. It does after all have the most regions of any vanilla campaign map yet. However, CA's campaign maps have never been a paragon of accuracy and detail (though the same also applies to Paradox games aswell), they can't really be compared to what mods have produced.

CA has been saying that they want to support Rome 2 with mod tools similar to those of Shogun 2, and that would mean that the campaign map will likely become moddable. If and when that happens, making an accurate, more detailed map will be one of my primary focuses (that is if having to constantly deal with ignorant forumites about the current state of modding in the Total War series doesn't drive me away from here first). After all, I am one of a very select few who currently knows how to mod the campaign map on the warscape engine. And perhaps the only one with the current knowledge of how to build a entirely new map from scratch on this engine.

In fact I am currently researching information for a more detailed map. I currently have a concept completely for a map with 77 provinces and 211, and am now working on a more detailed one with around 110 provinces and 300 regions.

Here's a small preview of the map I am working on... rep for the first person who can name the six provinces in the Iberian peninsula and all the cities (or atleast most of them)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[The Wandering Storyteller]

Considering the vanilla campaign map of Rome 2, I actually think it's quite good, of course that is in comparison with other vanilla Total War campaign maps. It does after all have the most regions of any vanilla campaign map yet. However, CA's campaign maps have never been a paragon of accuracy and detail (though the same also applies to Paradox games aswell), they can't really be compared to what mods have produced.

CA has been saying that they want to support Rome 2 with mod tools similar to those of Shogun 2, and that would mean that the campaign map will likely become moddable. If and when that happens, making an accurate, more detailed map will be one of my primary focuses (that is if having to constantly deal with ignorant forumites about the current state of modding in the Total War series doesn't drive me away from here first). After all, I am one of a very select few who currently knows how to mod the campaign map on the warscape engine. And perhaps the only one with the current knowledge of how to build a entirely new map from scratch on this engine.

In fact I am currently researching information for a more detailed map. I currently have a concept completely for a map with 77 provinces and 211, and am now working on a more detailed one with around 110 provinces and 300 regions.

Here's a small preview of the map I am working on... rep for the first person who can name the six provinces in the Iberian peninsula and all the cities (or atleast most of them)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If you say what you are, General George S Patton may be interested in you, in fact many modders will.

[General George S. Patton]

If you say what you are, General George S Patton may be interested in you, in fact many modders will.

He is on the team , but I am guessing any campaign map he makes will be available to all.

[CheesyFreak]

Considering the vanilla campaign map of Rome 2, I actually think it's quite good, of course that is in comparison with other vanilla Total War campaign maps. It does after all have the most regions of any vanilla campaign map yet. However, CA's campaign maps have never been a paragon of accuracy and detail (though the same also applies to Paradox games aswell), they can't really be compared to what mods have produced.

CA has been saying that they want to support Rome 2 with mod tools similar to those of Shogun 2, and that would mean that the campaign map will likely become moddable. If and when that happens, making an accurate, more detailed map will be one of my primary focuses (that is if having to constantly deal with ignorant forumites about the current state of modding in the Total War series doesn't drive me away from here first). After all, I am one of a very select few who currently knows how to mod the campaign map on the warscape engine. And perhaps the only one with the current knowledge of how to build a entirely new map from scratch on this engine.

In fact I am currently researching information for a more detailed map. I currently have a concept completely for a map with 77 provinces and 211, and am now working on a more detailed one with around 110 provinces and 300 regions.

Here's a small preview of the map I am working on... rep for the first person who can name the six provinces in the Iberian peninsula and all the cities (or atleast most of them)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Okay lets see

Provinces

Lusitania
Tarraconensis
Gallaecia
Citerior
Baetica

Cities

Augusta Emirita
Corduba
Numantia
Arse/Valentia
Bracara Augusta?

Cant recognise the middle one, and Gallaecia Probably is Tarraconensis, no idea about balearics.

Probably alot wrong, but how did i do it ?

[spartan_warrior]

Lusitania

Thats one.

Tarraconensis
Ulterior
Citerior
Baetica

These are all Roman names... think more pre-Roman, native Iberian names. Where possible I am using appropriate languages, so for example Gaul provinces and cities use recontructed Gaulish for the names.

Corduba
Numantia
Bracara Augusta?

Those are right... Kartuba, Numantia, Bracara

Augusta Emirita
Arse/Valentia

Again think more important cities for the tribes at this time.

Not quite enough for the rep sorry

He is on the team , but I am guessing any campaign map he makes will be available to all.

I won't really say I am one your team, I work for the most part one my own, and my mods are my own products. I agreed to let your mod use any map I may make, and likely other mods as well, if they ask.

Given the complexity of the campaign maps now, I doubt there will be many people willing to spent the time making wholly new maps.

[CheesyFreak]

Thats one.


These are all Roman names... think more pre-Roman, native Iberian names. Where possible I am using appropriate languages, so for example Gaul provinces and cities use recontructed Gaulish for the names.


Those are right... Kartuba, Numantia, Bracara


Again think more important cities for the tribes at this time.

Not quite enough for the rep sorry



I won't really say I am one your team, I work for the most part one my own, and my mods are my own products. I agreed to let your mod use any map I may make, and likely other mods as well, if they ask.

Given the complexity of the campaign maps now, I doubt there will be many people willing to spent the time making wholly new maps.

Okay no rep, BUT I WILL CRACK THE CODE!!!

[Kadoken]

Considering the vanilla campaign map of Rome 2, I actually think it's quite good, of course that is in comparison with other vanilla Total War campaign maps. It does after all have the most regions of any vanilla campaign map yet. However, CA's campaign maps have never been a paragon of accuracy and detail (though the same also applies to Paradox games aswell), they can't really be compared to what mods have produced.

CA has been saying that they want to support Rome 2 with mod tools similar to those of Shogun 2, and that would mean that the campaign map will likely become moddable. If and when that happens, making an accurate, more detailed map will be one of my primary focuses (that is if having to constantly deal with ignorant forumites about the current state of modding in the Total War series doesn't drive me away from here first). After all, I am one of a very select few who currently knows how to mod the campaign map on the warscape engine. And perhaps the only one with the current knowledge of how to build a entirely new map from scratch on this engine.

In fact I am currently researching information for a more detailed map. I currently have a concept completely for a map with 77 provinces and 211, and am now working on a more detailed one with around 110 provinces and 300 regions.

Here's a small preview of the map I am working on... rep for the first person who can name the six provinces in the Iberian peninsula and all the cities (or atleast most of them)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spartan, you are a classy mofo. I hope we can see your regional and provincial magic in Rome 2. Did you help unanime with the expanded Japan mod? Because that's a game changer for me.

[spartan_warrior]

Spartan, you are a classy mofo. I hope we can see your regional and provincial magic in Rome 2. Did you help unanime with the expanded Japan mod? Because that's a game changer for me.

I originally helped unanime sort out some of the difficulties he was having with being able to successfully mod the campaign map, but all the work done in his Extended Japan mod is his own. I was planning on doing a map mod for Shogun 2, but decided not to since Rome 2 was so close at hand.

So instead I am just focusing on researching for my Rome 2 map, which is rather intensive, as trying to find good info on some of the less documented areas of the ancient world can be somewhat difficult. Like what would the Garamantes' city of Garama been called in it's native Berber language? Likely 'Agherm' meaning 'city', as the Greek name 'Garamantes' likely comes from 'Igherman' meaning 'cities'.

[barry12]

I originally helped unanime sort out some of the difficulties he was having with being able to successfully mod the campaign map, but all the work done in his Extended Japan mod is his own. I was planning on doing a map mod for Shogun 2, but decided not to since Rome 2 was so close at hand.

So instead I am just focusing on researching for my Rome 2 map, which is rather intensive, as trying to find good info on some of the less documented areas of the ancient world can be somewhat difficult. Like what would the Garamantes' city of Garama been called in it's native Berber language? Likely 'Agherm' meaning 'city', as the Greek name 'Garamantes' likely comes from 'Igherman' meaning 'cities'.

Thanks for your work! Please ignore some of the the ignorants on this forum, they should be praising people like you as you are part of a precious few who can work on this engine. Must take some serious effort!

[eregost]

I originally helped unanime sort out some of the difficulties he was having with being able to successfully mod the campaign map, but all the work done in his Extended Japan mod is his own. I was planning on doing a map mod for Shogun 2, but decided not to since Rome 2 was so close at hand.

So instead I am just focusing on researching for my Rome 2 map, which is rather intensive, as trying to find good info on some of the less documented areas of the ancient world can be somewhat difficult. Like what would the Garamantes' city of Garama been called in it's native Berber language? Likely 'Agherm' meaning 'city', as the Greek name 'Garamantes' likely comes from 'Igherman' meaning 'cities'.

I love you Spartan, keep doing what you're doing!