Total War (In General) and Rome II Campaign Help for a new player.

[totalwarcamp]

Salutations,


I recently purchased the Napoleon: Total War and Total War: Shogun 2 collections from a recent sale, while pre-ordering Rome 2.


After playing their respective demos on steam, I thought that I would enjoy their campaigns very much.

I would like to start by saying that the games, at least on the face of it, are beautiful, complex, and very engaging. Having played all of the Age of Empires series and some Civilization IV and V in the past. I could see the potential

that this series had. From the logistics of empire management, taxation, diplomacy with other factions, technological research, and of course the actual on the battlefield strategic deployments and maneuver of troops.

All in all, I was very impressed.



Time for some Shogun 2



After playing the campaign for a little while, I began to encounter a great many difficulties, some of which I learned were simple game mechanics that needed to be learned and managed, such as taxation levels and revenue, food

supply, army upkeep, etc. After a few attempts, I managed to have a happy, moderately taxed (green levels), well fed, well developed little clan of 3 or 4 provinces. This is where the difficulties began to arise. I first played as the Shimazu

faction at the far western end of Japan, below the Omoto Clan, and then later as the ninjutsu oriented Hattori clan in central Japan just east of Kyoto.



Despite trade relations, a multi-star ninja, monk, and metsuke, as well as a happy little clan with 2 full stack armies defending it, it seemed that at a pre-determined point in the game, some giant faction or other,

or several would declare war on me, not talking about realm divide, and I would instantly be fighting several full stack armies usually 4 at a time that would magically appear on my doorstep. On such clan had managed to, unchecked, gobble

up 15 provinces in as little as 30 turns, and arrived on my doorstep with 4 full stack armies. A clan I had never previously encountered at all, in trade or otherwise. This wasn't a realm divide, I only had four provinces, and was merely "noted"

in fame at the time. Also, one time, in fighting nothing more than a tiny single province clan, I managed to pull what I thought was a lovely coup. By sending my high level monk into their town and inciting a rebellion, I neatly mopped up the

rebel faction that had captured their town, only to have one of my loyal generals defect with their entire army, to what I only presume was the remainder of the "rebel" faction.



Time for a little Napoleon.



I played through the first few Napoleonic campaigns, no problem, started the campaign for France for 1805-1812. For a time I did exceedingly well, conquered Prague, conquered Vienna, and then wham... You're I was

fighting Russia and Austria, Germany has declared war on me. Batavia formerly a trade partner, captures Prague, Britain declares war, and in one turn captures just about half of France, less Paris, and a turn later, when I recall my armies ]

back to help France, Germany takes Vienna back.



I have had no problems playing on the battlefield, in either game, and often times do so well that I inflict anything from 4x to 10x as many casualties on their armies as the do mine, so that is not the problem.



Why must the Campaign Ai, which has been set on easy, adopt basically one and only one strategy:



On turn x, everyone and their dog declare war on the player, and attack with 20+ full stack armies in some grand alliance against me, when at that point in the game, I'm a empire of little fame, economy or anything at all.

Unless I produce about 8+ full stack armies, almost all of which will have to be left behind to guard against random attacks. Tread on the brink of bankruptcy, and in the case of Shogun 2, field god knows how many ninjas, monks, and

metsuke, it is constantly game over.



I would love to love this game series, and either hear of news of creative assembly fixing potentially broken campaign ai (Here I'm refering only to easy/normal campaign, and not battlefield ai) or fixing the lack of knowledge on my part, either

of which are preventing me from enjoying, not one, but potentially three great games. I hate to state the obvious, and I'm willing to learn to amend my strategies to successfully play the campaigns, but in most games easy....

Well means easy, not neigh impossible.



Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated,



Thank You!

[totalwarcamp]

Salutations,


I recently purchased the Napoleon: Total War and Total War: Shogun 2 collections from a recent sale, while pre-ordering Rome 2.


After playing their respective demos on steam, I thought that I would enjoy their campaigns very much.
I would like to start by saying that the games, at least on the face of it, are beautiful, complex, and very engaging. Having played all of the Age of Empires series and some Civilization IV and V in the past. I could see the potential
that this series had. From the logistics of empire management, taxation, diplomacy with other factions, technological research, and of course the actual on the battlefield strategic deployments and maneuver of troops.
All in all, I was very impressed.



Time for some Shogun 2



After playing the campaign for a little while, I began to encounter a great many difficulties, some of which I learned were simple game mechanics that needed to be learned and managed, such as taxation levels and revenue, food
supply, army upkeep, etc. After a few attempts, I managed to have a happy, moderately taxed (green levels), well fed, well developed little clan of 3 or 4 provinces. This is where the difficulties began to arise. I first played as the Shimazu
faction at the far western end of Japan, below the Omoto Clan, and then later as the ninjutsu oriented Hattori clan in central Japan just east of Kyoto.



Despite trade relations, a multi-star ninja, monk, and metsuke, as well as a happy little clan with 2 full stack armies defending it, it seemed that at a pre-determined point in the game, some giant faction or other,
or several would declare war on me, not talking about realm divide, and I would instantly be fighting several full stack armies usually 4 at a time that would magically appear on my doorstep. On such clan had managed to, unchecked, gobble
up 15 provinces in as little as 30 turns, and arrived on my doorstep with 4 full stack armies. A clan I had never previously encountered at all, in trade or otherwise. This wasn't a realm divide, I only had four provinces, and was merely "noted"
in fame at the time. Also, one time, in fighting nothing more than a tiny single province clan, I managed to pull what I thought was a lovely coup. By sending my high level monk into their town and inciting a rebellion, I neatly mopped up the
rebel faction that had captured their town, only to have one of my loyal generals defect with their entire army, to what I only presume was the remainder of the "rebel" faction.



Time for a little Napoleon.



I played through the first few Napoleonic campaigns, no problem, started the campaign for France for 1805-1812. For a time I did exceedingly well, conquered Prague, conquered Vienna, and then wham... You're I was
fighting Russia and Austria, Germany has declared war on me. Batavia formerly a trade partner, captures Prague, Britain declares war, and in one turn captures just about half of France, less Paris, and a turn later, when I recall my armies ]
back to help France, Germany takes Vienna back.



I have had no problems playing on the battlefield, in either game, and often times do so well that I inflict anything from 4x to 10x as many casualties on their armies as the do mine, so that is not the problem.



Why must the Campaign Ai, which has been set on easy, adopt basically one and only one strategy:



On turn x, everyone and their dog declare war on the player, and attack with 20+ full stack armies in some grand alliance against me, when at that point in the game, I'm a empire of little fame, economy or anything at all.
Unless I produce about 8+ full stack armies, almost all of which will have to be left behind to guard against random attacks. Tread on the brink of bankruptcy, and in the case of Shogun 2, field god knows how many ninjas, monks, and
metsuke, it is constantly game over.



I would love to love this game series, and either hear of news of creative assembly fixing potentially broken campaign ai (Here I'm refering only to easy/normal campaign, and not battlefield ai) or fixing the lack of knowledge on my part, either
of which are preventing me from enjoying, not one, but potentially three great games. I hate to state the obvious, and I'm willing to learn to amend my strategies to successfully play the campaigns, but in most games easy....
Well means easy, not neigh impossible.



Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated,



Thank You!


(This is a reformated version of this post, the first one came out in quite a jumble, my apologies)

[totalwarcamp]

and that didn't work either, just delete this mess, preview post doesn't look a thing like the final outcome.

[The Juggernaut]

Hey mate, it sounds like you're new to the total war series, there are a lot of things that take some getting used to, particularly in the newer games. Campaign map is my forte, so I'll try to give you some tips and see if I can help you out.

For Napoleon:

Playing as France is kinda hit or miss. If you can afford to, you should make sure your sateite states are happy with you with gifts of money or tech. In addition, don't lose regions. They're subjects, not allies, and when they sense weakness they WILL turn against you, every time. In Napoleon, I might suggest you start off with Russia or Britain, as both are relatively isolated and are clear members of the coalition. Austria gets eaten, and Prussia's just kinda in the middle.

You're going to want to ward of the British, either by attacking their ports or landing armies on the coast using small fleets. I always keep an army in Paris just in case the British come through, it's a drag on your finances but it's better than the alternative. Also, when playing as France, don't hesitate to destroy a few enemy armies, take a few of their regions, then give those regions back in exchange for peace, even an alliance. The regions around Vienna (Bohemia, Graz, Hungary, and Croatia) are all fairly close together, and usually poorly fortified. Take them, and give em back, and don't bother with Vienna if you don't need to. The Ottomans make good friends if you can bring them to your side, and subsidies make them effective at occupying the Russians and Austrians.

TLDR: Win battles, don't lose provinces. Keep allies happy with gifts, end wars as quickly as you can. Overall, protect France and keep your armies intact.

Shogun Tips:
Shogun is much harder than any of the previous games in my opinion, and it's really the first Total War game I've lost on more than one occasion when starting out. My policy in Shogun is to make as FEW alliances as possible, with the best possible ally. You don't want to ally with the clan right next door, because if you break that alliance hthen EVERYONE will hate you. Your best bet is to wait a few turns (e.g. 12 turns or more) and see who starts to grow. Either make friends with the neighborhood bully or one of his stronger enemies; either you get a big friend or the gratitude of a smaller ally. Above all, don't go asking everyone for an alliance, because your allies will fight each other, and either way you get the "Broke Alliances" diplomacy penalty.

Also, your best bet in Shogun is to expand slowly, without arousing the suspicions of your neighbors. Think about who else wants what province, and if you're willing to go to war with them over it. The diplomacy in Shogun is much better at knowing it's been beaten: if you're besieging their last city with a full stack against their none, they'll probably accept a vassal status.

Best starter clans are probably the Date and the Chosokabe, they're both fairly removed from the early action and allow you to build a good base to work from. Chosokabe in particular are fun because the island is big enough to be independent, but small enough that you aren't worried about real divide just yet, and you have a clear line of invasion to multiple points on the mainland. After you've got 5-7 provinces, focus on your economy for a while, you'll need the money to field enough stacks for Realm Divide.

TLDR: Expand slowly, few but close allies, make your economy strong.
Take a lesson from the Takeda. I've notice that in many of my campaigns, the Takeda grow extremely quickly. They're waves and waves of armies, almost unstoppable. And then, they suddenly collapse. All their neighbors get tired of it, and bam, they're gone, eaten up by a bunch of little tiny factions.

Hope this helps you, Total War is a great game, fun to learn and hard to master. Stick with it, you'll enjoy it.

[GussieFinkNottle]

I'm going to have to disagree with the Juggernaut in campaign strategy. I have never lost a total war campaign, and in all have found that aggression is key. In tw might is right and being the strongest faction is critical to success. Allow me to give a few strategies I have found to be greatly successful. Remember caution is actually not a good idea since it hems you in when you want to be accumulating power. At the start all your rivals will be on the make at the expense of the little factions.

Early game strategy
At the start, particularly in Shogun2, it is crucial to remember that almost all factions are weak. When they all have very little land is the time to seize the initiative. Concentrate spending on the military for the first few turns and try to wipe out hostile factions. This will help to give you a firm foothold. Try to make as many trade agreements as possible with neighbouring factions in the first turn before they start to dislike you, in order to fund your wars.

Rapid expansion is key to survival and eventual triumph


Napoleon strategy
Play as France for the quality of the regulars, the heavy use of cannons (which are a massive help in battles) and the brilliant cavalry unit 'chasseurs a cheval' which can move and fire mounted at the same time (use them to take out enemy cannons and generals but get away unscathed). The cutscenes are good too as the frogs.
Don't forget to buy some 122 gun battleships so you can confront the British navy at a later date (if you try it at the start you will be pulped). If you race East in lightning attacks you can be at Moscow by October of the first year. Recruit huge numbers of militia in captured towns to maintain order while your armies race on. A critical part of this strategy is a trade agreement with the Ottomans, necessary to fund your campaigns. Only declare war on those that you need to crush, until you have killed them keep everyone else a friend.

Empire
It can be quite hard to get off the ground in Empire, and again speed is key. Play as the British, do not try to take Caribbean islands, instead focus on crushing the native Americans. In Europe capture France at the beginning, it's easier than it sounds, and once pacified, it provides 3000 a year in tax.

Shogun 2
If playing as a central Japanese faction, like the Takeda, make alliances and choose your enemies to kill one by one (but rapidly), as wars on all sides could destroy you. They need a lot of trade agreements. Factions at the ends of Japan, like the Date or Shimazu are easier as if you maintain a large army you can just sweep along the map and kill all factions in your path, without worrying about being surrounded. In S2, and particularly in FOTS the bonuses offered by research are needed for a happy and prosperous empire.

Economics
In all three of the warscape games (ETW, NTW, S2) it is much harder to get filthy rich than earlier games since you can't have a plunder-based economy (as sacking cities makes townspeople hate you, instead of fear you). Thus diplomacy and trade become central to your economy. Trade with everyone you can, in FOTS you must trade with the western powers to have enough money. Since (unfairly) AI factions have unlimited funds, you can scam them out of loads in NTW. This is done by offering an ally to join them in a war, in return for some money. Then make peace with your new (weak) enemy. Rinse and repeat until rich



Overall just remember to be on the attack all the time and never be the defender, if you can do that, then you'll never be the victim of an invasion you can't deal with. Take the fight to them, if in doubt, attack!

[youngfool]

To be honest, I've never enjoyed playing Empire TW and Shogun 2, least not half as much as I did playing Rome I and Medieval II TW for various reasons. Thus I have never recommend the former two to any of my friend as an introduction to the TW series. So my advise is to go and try Medieval II TW, as it is equally splendoured as Rome I, it does have better graphics to satisfy today's eyes.

[wealthmonger]

For shogun 2:

It sounds like to you need to use more diplomatic manipulation. Make an alliance or two, get them to break their alliances with other clans so they stay busy with each other instead of you, sell military access, trade with the clans that are near you. Also slowly increase your military strength while growing your economy, if your to weak militarily they'll attack you.

The AI clans are biased against the player and sometimes an idiot will attack you from the other side of japan. Using diplomatic manipulation and having adequate military strength will greatly lessen the number of DoW's on your clan. I usually expand quickly to a half dozen provinces but I've also turtled on one province for a long time, so it can work with slow or fast expansion.

Using the above method I've turtled with uesugi in echigo for 5 years without any DoW's and getting jinbo to agree to peace, so no battles except the starting rebels. In another campaign I expanded to 17 provinces within 5 years, everyone hated me but they feared my military strength so no DoW's. On the other hand-sometimes the game just goes nuts on you in which case you'll have to slog thru the mess for a while until things calm down.

[nomercysniper]

As the Shimazu I'd do my best to capture the island your on and control that completely. Do that, then you can put a navy on the land bridge. An army behind in case, and an army on your east coast.

[DeejoHD]

These Links Will Help as well I am Updating them and adding to them Hope this helps!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDgfaOb3vVY&hd=1
http://youtu.be/aeGoZ8Oqh2o
http://youtu.be/S5o-LW7ojX4
As well I am Thinking of Doing History videos as well so look out for them.

[totalwarcamp]

Status Update:

I've been following all of your various recommendations and I've won Supreme Victory as the Russians in Coalition Campaign in Napoleon: Total War!

Fireworks and all, I'm more confident in understanding how everything works, at least in Napoleon.

I see now that I desperately needed two things, despite managing my economy well...

Lots more Alliances/Trade Partners, and a better understanding of how they feel towards my faction. ( I didn't even notice the +150 very friendly or -30 hostile bit until this play through.

They really were after me because I didn't expand a lot, had no trade partners, or alliances developed and I hadn't bothered to notice which factions were after which provinces etc and who they were friends with.

I imagine in Shogun I probably angered lots of factional alliances by simply expanding out from my starting point in every direction. Even though I only had four provinces I probably was at war with 6 factions.

and finally I needed to produce more armies, this time I had 4 full 20 stack armies covering the fronts, and then I would send gifts of state and make peace etc to consolidate.

I even beat Napoleon in Hungary and made it a protectorate, only later he even offered me peace! I was at one time at peace with every faction in Europe, it was wonderful.


So now on to the greatest challenge of all, winning a Shogun 2 campaign


Thanks Everyone!

[totalwarcamp]

Update #2:

Barely made a Shimazu Clan win in Shogun 2, right on the edge of 1580 with 25 provinces and kyoto. I didn't really enjoy Shogun 2 as much as Napoleon, not because of the era / location, which is both interesting and beautiful, but because of the intense

tedium of managing everything that is going on at once, while all the chaos is going on around you. I really rather hope that Rome 2 doesn't much resemble the way Shogun 2 plays.

Things that I have learned from my first successful campaigns,

#1 Manage your Economy / Domestic Politics, and make sure that you have the technology and necessary buildings, garrisoned troops to prevent unhappiness at home. As well as making sure to keep growing your revenues as much as possible.

#2 Diplomacy, Trade and Military Alliances, an absolute must, I realize now that going it alone will never do in Total War. I managed to manipulate Austria, Prussia, and others in Napoleon, even making peace with everyone on the map while consolidating.

Shogun 2 I played the Shimazu in the far western island and allied /traded immediately with the Chosokabe on the other small island, freeing me to conquer my island and push through the mainland, and gobble up sea trade.

#3 Navy, had to have one and a strong enough one to push them out of my trade lanes, my territory and eventually hold them off at the major choke points at sea between islands.

#4 Spies/Agents/Ninja etc. Had to keep them on the front lines either countering or pre-empting whatever the enemy was doing with theirs. Needed to get them as soon as I could and level them up to be effective.

#5 Land Armies, needed full ones and good ones, and needed to confine the fighting to one front at choke points where I only had to deal with one or two battles at a time.

I just wish the pace and battles had been a little different in Shogun 2, I just felt like auto-resolving practically everything as I pushed my way through mainland Japan.

But atleast I feel good enough, and knowledgeable enough about playing Total War to go ahead with Rome 2, I'm exciting to see the changes and of course what a wonderful historical period to enjoy

Thanks again for everyone's advice and help.