Sparta : strategies on the battlefield

[kamikazee786]

why what an absurd question, every one knows the answer to that !!!

first and foremost you should find every single deformed hunchback and kill him

after that its just canyon camping and yelling

[JaM]

using old Spartan tactics against more modern equipped Romans is not that good idea... mind you - Spartan Hoplites tactics is hundreds years older than mobile warfare of the legions, counting on rigid formation is a good way how to die..

[Lortano]

Well, what you do is, you set up a battle next to a huge well and then...

[Dbx125]

DOnt forget the portable walls made of dead bodies.

[Baldos]

What about the old Hammer and Anvil tactic? "The Hammer and Anvil tactic is a military tactic used since the beginning of organized warfare. It was used mostly in the ancient world, including by Alexander the Great. The hammer and anvil is a relatively simple maneuver. It begins with two infantry forces of varying strengths engaging in a frontal assault. While the infantry lines are fixed in the engagement, a cavalry force maneuvers around the enemy and attacks from behind, sandwiching it into the friendly infantry. Generally, the force attempting the maneuver needs to have a superior amount of cavalry to be successful. This military maneuver was popular in a number of battles throughout the Classical Period. In addition to being used in many of Alexander the Great's battles, this tactic was also used during the Second Punic Wars, specifically the Battle of Cannae and the Battle of Zama. The maneuver's origins are Hellenistic, therefore it often relied on light cavalry. The tactic also worked well however, with the heavy cataphracts of the Eastern world."

[King Xiao]

Screw the tactics. My first play will be Sparta. Spartans advance, they do not sit there. Full frontal assault every time!

[Destro]

weaker infantry to hold the center through pure numbers with stronger units attacking either wing, then envelope with merc cavalry, pretty straight forward. That way I can keep at least some of my stronger units out of direct harm from the stronger as the weaker units, I'd imagine, will be cheap to replace. Only intend to have 2-4 Elite Spartan units per army.

If the AI plays the old style Hellenic route with the best units on the right, may attempt the same tactic as Thebes employed against Sparta and throw all my strongest units on the left to counter the best troops, and huge numbers on the right to break the line and roll it up

Failing that, aircraft carrier

[baldrick13]

i don't suppose that kicking them off of cliffs is an option?

[BroskiDerpman]

Spam all spears and keep reserves for flanking enemy out numbered infantry and other spears to guard flanks/ rear.

If against Steppe factions:don't worry your spears will be so much you can push them to the imaginary red border.

Experience: Yari Ashigaru spam. Plus line infantry spam in NTW. FoTS line spam.

[chadwicknight]

When the game comes out, i'm considering starting as Sparta.
Though i'm not sure if the unit roster has enough variation, besides Hoplites

- What strategies can you use as Sparta when laying siege ?
- Which strategies can you use as Sparta against an archer heavy army ?
- Which strategies can you use as Sparta against an army with a lot of cavalry ?

I am pretty sure that every faction will have access to the very basic units, such as skirmishers, infantry, spearmen, cavalry (four-footed animals anyway). Of course one faction will be more keen or specialised in one or two basic types, thus Sparta could always rely on strong hoplites.


If your question is really "what strategy or better, tactics CAN you use" the answer is simple: Everything you can come up to, or satisfies you, or simply just works.


Wanna role-play an orthodox military leader still confined in pure phalangite warfare? Go for it! Be prepared to suffer some losses versus more balanced opponents, but with accurate choosing of diplomacy and battlefields you can still win the day.

Wanna role-play a young spartan leader, with fresher ideas on warfare based on the success of Alexander the third? Try to reach a more variety and versatility on you army composition


Of course we still know little about the actual unit rosters or practical battle mechanics, but we can speculate.


Personally i will try to play hellenistic faction emphasising the wonders of the phalanx.

Check this chess-like key icons

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Following that, a more balanced army should be something like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is a 40 land units massive army. It can easily be converted in a more available 20 unit army if you want to.

- 9 units of phalanx, including your bad-ass general, ready to die for his glory in every single battle

- 3 units of heavy infantry covering the sides of the exposed phalanx units

- 6 units of light infantry as reserves

- 5 units of light spearmen, ready to aid your weak cavalry (mostly on the left flank)

- 12 units (more than 1\4 of your force) of the best skirmisher you can afford (they are crucial for this composition), including 2 mounted units on the left

- 2 units of light cavalry, mostly used as mounted-skirmishers-catchers, or chasers in the case of victory

- 2 units of heavy cavalry and if it will be possible 1 unit of elephants, their role is containment. They will try to delay\stop\kill enemy cavalry flankers

- The left flank will be your weakest, your right will be strongest


With this composition your main goal is to neutralise the enemy skirmishers using your own and sacrificing weaker units (your skirmishers themselves or light reserves) to soak enemy javelins\stones\arrows.

Don't try to harass enemy infantry, your main target are enemy skirmishers, soak their damage or kill them with everything you got, keeping your phalanx relatively safe.

You will also try to lure enemy cavalry into your light spearmen in the left and directly kill enemy cavalry on the right, with both heavy cavalry\elephants and spearmen

If this will go well, your enemy will have no more support and it will be forced to stand toe-to-toe with your best infantry troops, in a frontal assault against phalanx. You will tear them to pieces



This is just one idea, hope you liked it.

Peace

[perifanosEllinas]

When the game comes out, i'm considering starting as Sparta.
Though i'm not sure if the unit roster has enough variation, besides Hoplites

Jack Lusted has said that Sparta will include Spartan,perioikoi and helots units so they should not have only hoplites.

- What strategies can you use as Sparta when laying siege ?

Those are the general ideas: ram or catapult if you want to enter through the gate(s),catapult if you want to breach the wall,navy if you want to sneak units through the enemy's port,ladders if you want to attack the enemy units on the wall,sapping if the enemy has a lot of archers on the wall and you want to breach it without catapults,towers if you want to attack the units on the wall but the enemy has a lot of missile troops there.

If CA has equipped the Spartan equals with very heavy armours and very high armour stats as they should be,then approaching the walls should cause very little casualties in combination with raising their hoplon shields,unless the enemy has too many missile units on the wall.Now let's check the different tactics I would suggest.

1)If the AI has a lot of missile troops on the wall but no melee units,you raise ladders at a point of the wall that is unguarded and get heavy melee units on the wall to massacre the light missile troops fast and easily and then approaching with your main army should be no problem.Don't use your elite units however,because fighting on the wall usually means more casualties for your units and you don't want to waste your elites.If the AI tries to get melee units on the wall to help the missile units,make sure to raise ladders at other points of the wall too and surround the enemy units on it and sneak some melee units from the wall down in the city to distract the enemy melee units and that will stop them from getting on the wall and they will attack your units on the ground,unless the AI is totally retarded.But let's assume that it will not be.Towers are very risky,because they can get on fire and then the unit inside will suffer heavy casualties until it manages to get out,but if you can sneak your tower at an unguarded point of the wall then don't hesitate at all,just do it.It should serve you greatly.

2)If the AI has melee units on the wall but no missile units it is not worth the time and casualties to try and take the wall.You bring down the gate or a part of the wall and get a solid elite Spartan phalanx in the narrow pass with missile support.Every unit that will try to stop you will probably suffer a humiliating defeat,as long as you keep the phalanx's flanks secure.Depending on the position of the capture points and the deployment of the enemy you would probably need to create a couple more breaches to the wall and bring more of your phalanxes in the city and don't forget missile support to cause casualties and morale damage before the phalanx engages.The units on the wall would probably try to come down to help with the defense of the breaches.But remember that as long as your phalanx is not outflanked almost nothing can stop it,so take care of your flanks and rear and you should have absolutely no problem.As soon as you have crushed the outer defense and are now in the city's streets,you fight only at the front in narrow passes,which would make your elite Spartan phalanxes nearly unbeatable.Only phalangites would be able to hold back hoplite phalanxes in such an occasion,unless CA has totally messed up the hoplite phalanx,but let's assume that they haven't.And don't forget that you could also sneak units behind the wall through the enemy's port.

3)If the AI has mixed defense on the wall (melee and missile units),then you have to weigh the situation.

a)If there are not many missile troops,you go with what I suggested in number 2.Breach parts of the wall that have no missile units nearby.

b)If there are many missile troops and melee units on the wall and are equally spread out on the wall,now you've got a problem.Assaulting the wall with ladders is not worth the time and casualties in this occasion,as the defenses are very strong.Getting few units on the wall would cause your units to be heavily shot and probably surrounded by the melee units.It's just not worth it.But you still need to take out the missile units in order to approach your main army to the wall.So let me ask you a question: in an occasion that a phalanx based army would be outnumbered in a pitch battle,what would it have to do to secure victory?As Marathon,Thermopylae and Plataea prove it would just need to secure the flanks and limit the fight only to the front.Right? And by the example of Marathon if you outflank and surround the enemy he will probably fall apart and be crushed easily and fast.That's exactly the philosophy that you have to use in this occasion.You use your catapults to bring down specific parts of the wall that are in the same distance from each other to create what I call battle zones.So you have to see where the stairs or towers that enable enemy units to get on the wall are and bring down a part of the wall on the left and right side of this point.By doing this,you force every enemy unit that gets on the wall to go in the middle of that part of the wall and you cut the connection with the rest of the wall,so the other units cannot help those on this part of the wall.You do that to other parts of the wall too (only where there are enemy units) and that way you isolate small enemy groups in each "battle zone" of the wall.You now have opened many possibilities.You just need to engage at about the same time in all battle zones so that the enemy cannot try to transfer units from one part of the wall to another,as all the units would be engaged.If there are melee units on a wall part without missile units nearby,you can get your own melee units on the wall to engage them form the one side to force them to look in one direction and then get some of your missile troops on the other side of the gap on the wall to shoot the enemy units at their rear without enemy units close to threaten them while your melee units attack them at the front at the same time.If a part of the wall has missile troops you just get melee units there protected in a tower (get a cheap unit in the tower first just in case the tower gets on fire)and after they are on the wall the missile troops are no match for your melee units.If another part of the wall has elite melee units,you raise ladders on both sides of the wall zone and attack the enemy with your heavy melee units from both sides to surround them and crush their morale.You can use this tactic too if there are mixed units on another wall zone.If you think that a part of the wall still has too strong defense and you can't get it you could just ignore it or if you want to get it just bring it down with catapults and the units on it will take massive casualties,if not break entirely.After you secure total control of the outer wall,nothing can stop you,as the enemy must have taken massive casualties at this point if you make the right decisions on which units to attack each wall zone.And again,remember that you can sneak units behind the wall through the port.

c)If there are many missile troops and melee units on the wall but are gathered in one place of the wall,then things are much simpler and faster.You can simply raise ladders at an unguarded part of the wall and gather units up there fast.Take as many enemy towers as you can before the enemy gets close enough and let the towers rain death on the enemy as they engage your units.Since you assaulted a point far away from the enemy they can attack you only from one side on the wall and if the enemy moves at the other side to attack you from both sides at the same time,just block the way with some heavy melee units.Sneak units from the wall down in the city and don't focus at the battle on the wall too much in this occasion.Just go for the capture points in the city and as I said before use the streets wisely to make your elite phalanxes fight only at the front and you'll have no problem.

- Which strategies can you use as Sparta against an archer heavy army ?

"Archer heavy army" ? What does that mean? An army with a lot of archers? An army with archers in heavy armour? Anyway,in both cases just take the archers out with cavalry.Pretty simple.

- Which strategies can you use as Sparta against an army with a lot of cavalry ?

As long as you keep the flanks and rear secure the cavalry is pretty much useless at the front against phalanxes.You can use mobile non-phalanx spear units at the flanks if you like with a lot of missile support.Thorakite would be a great choice.If the enemy has archer cavalry units drive them away from your phalanxes with your melee cavalry.If the enemy has javelin cavalry units shoot them with archers before they get close enough to shoot,but keep your archers protected.If the enemy is a total missile cavalry army then you have two options: 1)ambush it on the campaign map and just take it by surprise on the battlefield and attack it from every side with your spearmen before it can react or 2)if you have to fight a pitch battle then hide melee cavalry units and deploy your phalanxes far enough from the enemy to give space to your cavalry to maneuver freely at the enemy's rear.Let the enemy come as close as possible and when they are about to start shooting trigger your trap.Attack them at their rear with a surprise attack of your melee cavalry.That will distract them from your phalanxes and they will not shoot you.Then move your phalanxes to "sandwich" the enemy between two fronts.If you manage to engage most of the enemy units in this trap send your flanking spearmen (Thyreophori,Thorakite) to flank the engaged enemy units and finish them off.They should be crushed pretty fast if you consider that they would be attacked at three sides (including the rear) at this moment of the battle.If there are some remaining enemy units you could finish them off with your cavalry or your missile infantry.But you have to make the attack at the rear successful,because if you fail at this part and they manage to get away and just shoot you from a distance,you're pretty much f__ked.Perhaps hiding some Thyreophori and Thorakite units could help too.

I hope you liked my suggestions.Have fun with your own tactics too

[blace]

i think the best strategy with sparta is to just attack and expand asap and try not to fight on to many fronts at a time even though diplomacy prolly wont be their strong point

[RandyRhoads]

1. remove breastplate
2. all out charge in the enemy lines
3. ???
4. profit

[Vassileios]

I will use a balanced, modernised professional army, to the extent permitted by the game of course. Pike phalanxes, hoplites or any other more mobile troops guarding the flanks, cavalry, cretan archers are all in.

If CA forces us to use a 5th-century BC Spartan army, then I'll have to rely on hit-and-run tactics. As history has taught us, pike phalanxes can never be defeated by traditional hoplite phalanxes, and even moreso without some form of medium/heavy cavalry.

[SacredBoltgun]

As soon as you have acces true ressearch, youse morern units like thorakitai and support them with evereything else.

[Keyser]

Well that's what i do in every total war since the begining though...

Fix the ennemy, envelop it.

[Vassileios]

Simple tactics like hammer and anvil is something any player can apply. Improvising and adapting to the unexpected is a sign of a great player though.

[Roger Explosion]

Arm general with blades of chaos, spam Plume of Prometheus.

[Captain Arrrgh!]

And a cup of milk.

[Engie]

1. Select all troops
2. Right click on enemy general
3. ???
4. Profit