So, were there black legionairs?

[Megasalexandros]

There were no black legionaries, it would have been highly inprobable giving the fact that Rome only had to do with northern Africa, subsaharan blacks not even now, especially in antiquety didnt appeared in those areas, the amount of contact with black would have been really limited and probably only through trade

[ROYAL SIPHAI]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Maurice

If the Romans had no Black legionaries somebody explain me this???

[Nordmann]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Maurice

If the Romans had no Black legionaries somebody explain me this???

Does Rome 2 start in the 3rd century? No? Try again.

[Gelston]

Heh, the entire "Theban Legion" existing is in debate!

[Pour Some Sugar On Me]

There was Saint Maurice who was the leader of the Roman Theban Legion (3rd century). According to statues and images(13th century) he was represented as a black man.
If there were other black men in the legions, I think so yes, but not in the auxillia.

[Megasalexandros]

The entire story is in question, giving the fact that the oldest depiction we have is from the 12 hundreds and that if that guy ever existed he was from the upper egypt(that is south egypt)so also judging by the standards of that area as it was in the 13th century AD.
So the entire unit is in question, not only the man himself.
And i stick to my point , the phenomenon off masses of Black africans migrating northwards and intermingling with white Europeans is a 19th and especialy 20th and 21 century phenomenon and has nothing to do with antiquity at least in large scale as to be deemed noticable.
No there were no Black roman legionaries.

[ROYAL SIPHAI]

The entire story is in question, giving the fact that the oldest depiction we have is from the 12 hundreds and that if that guy ever existed he was from the upper egypt(that is south egypt)so also judging by the standards of that area as it was in the 13th century AD.
So the entire unit is in question, not only the man himself.
And i stick to my point , the phenomenon off masses of Black africans migrating northwards and intermingling with white Europeans is a 19th and especialy 20th and 21 century phenomenon and has nothing to do with antiquity at least in large scale as to be deemed noticable.
No there were no Black roman legionaries.

Stormfront mentality in a nutshell.

[Nordmann]

Stormfront mentality in a nutshell.

You have been brainwashed by the liberal media. I suggest you do not read/watch/play anything with a pre-modern setting, as it will likely clash with your indoctrination.

[Megasalexandros]

You have been brainwashed by the liberal media. I suggest you do not read/watch/play anything with a pre-modern setting, as it will likely clash with your indoctrination.

hhmm i dont think he is liberal at all, if you check his channel is littered with islamic and Turkish nationalism,

[Nordmann]

hhmm i dont think he is liberal at all, if you check his channel is littered with islamic and Turkish nationalism,

Oh well, that explains a lot then. It's not really worth engaging such a person in any form of discussion.

[ROYAL SIPHAI]

You have been brainwashed by the liberal media. I suggest you do not read/watch/play anything with a pre-modern setting, as it will likely clash with your indoctrination.

OMG Mud Races are trying to colonise Europe. EU-Arabia is gonna happen with the Arabs and Jews signing an Alliance to kill off White Europeans. Then the Turks are gonna send an 2 Million Mud race army to mix with White European wimminz.

[Megasalexandros]

The romans did give a about non Romans, for eg Souetunius clearly mentions that Augustus was sensitive about the preservation of the "Roman blood" and was too "stingy" about giving away Roman citizenship to non Romans.
Also we are not having a problem with black legionaries, we are having a problem with historical inaccuracies and oversimplifications of the past by using modern "European" "morality".

To answer to the "generalizations", iam not saying that within the 1000 years of Roman history i can prove there was not even ONE Black roman legionary, iam saying that the ancient and modern presence of Blacks in north africa is very limited, especially in antiquity, and that even if they were 1 or 2 or 10 Black legionaries during the 1000 years of Roman empires history up until the collapse of the western empire, those 10 or so Blacks do not constitute any rigid argument to support the "Black legionary" thesis , neither it would have been reasonable to be presented within , especially, within the timeframe of Rome 2.
The thread is pointless.

[killua]

The thread is pointless.

I agree 100%. This sort of threads rarely stay on topic and very fast give ground to trolls.

[Roger Explosion]

Certainly there would have been black legionaries. I imagine there were black hoplites too. Over hundreds of years, with people travelling all over the ancient world through trade and campaign, it's inconcievable and narrow minded to think that at there wasn't a single black man to arm himself with the gladius and pilum, just as it's ridiculous to think that the only role available to black Africans outside of Africa until recent centuries was that as a slave or serf. There was certainly xenophobia in the ancient world, but as has already been mentioned, racism as we define it now seems surprisingly rare.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Certainly there would have been black legionaries. I imagine there were black hoplites too. Over hundreds of years, with people travelling all over the ancient world through trade and campaign, it's inconcievable and narrow minded to think that at there wasn't a single black man to arm himself with the gladius and pilum, just as it's ridiculous to think that the only role available to black Africans outside of Africa until recent centuries was that as a slave or serf. There was certainly xenophobia in the ancient world, but as has already been mentioned, racism as we define it now seems surprisingly rare.

A handful black legions, yes it is possible, but very much really just a tiny tiny handful. Black hoplites? Impossible, the Hellenes were way to ethnocentric for that and citizenship in Greece was extremely restricted.

[Jackie Chan's Brother Wang...]

Who knows? The BBC tells me that black people have been living in Britain since time immemorial so...

I was under the impression that the Romans, whilst spreading their empire far and wide, remained very close knit in the mindset of 'Romans and others (us and them)', although the Roman army did become gradually less Roman over the centuries, in the end being comprised mainly of 'Barbarians' from Europe.

Stormfront mentality in a nutshell.

Person with no argument or skill for rebuttal in a nutshell.

[killua]

The entire story is in question, giving the fact that the oldest depiction we have is from the 12 hundreds and that if that guy ever existed he was from the upper egypt(that is south egypt)so also judging by the standards of that area as it was in the 13th century AD.
So the entire unit is in question, not only the man himself.
And i stick to my point , the phenomenon off masses of Black africans migrating northwards and intermingling with white Europeans is a 19th and especialy 20th and 21 century phenomenon and has nothing to do with antiquity at least in large scale as to be deemed noticable.
No there were no Black roman legionaries.

Sure, there mau not have been lots of them but saying there wasn't a single one (that is 0) on the basis that:

There was no blacks in northern Africas wrong . In modern northern Africa there is a considerable amount of native blacks (been there, seen it, know them) and even in antiquity there was nomads and people migrating through the Sahara (mostly towards the sub-saharan parts though but that does not exclude the opposite) and along the river Nile. Having a minority of native black north africans and some settlers from sub-saharan africa, it is very probable that the provinces of northern africa provided the legions with atleast 1 black legionary throughout the history of the Empire.

Making generalisations such as "there was no blacks in noth africa" are not going to win any arguments, besides it is safe to say NO (as in 0) living person on this planet has ever seen a real legionary in his life, even less a black one. This thread will keep popping up until the day we find the remains of a black man in legionary armour, until then no argument can proove this.

[Turkeys!]

I wouldn't be surprised if there were some who fought as auxiliaries in Egypt and the Levant, but certainly not in CA's timeframe.

[Megasalexandros]

The subject in question is reality not politics.

[♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠]

Stormfront mentality in a nutshell.

The subject in question is reality not politics.

Psychology, not politics. We have countless examples of black people in western europe during the middle ages AND the ancient time. We don't have any evidence of any black communities, but that's not the point. It's ultimately closed-minded to claim that there were no black legionaries - as there surely were, due to the fact that legions were raised in africa, and the fact that blacks were not specifically stigmatised during antiquity.

Whether this is actually worth discussing or not is an entirely different question. I for one could not care less. make a mod, or request one to be made. But seriously, in game terms, it's pointless.