Belgae Armoured General=useless

**nikzi76** · August 16, 2013, 06:09 AM

Hi,
ok now i have a problem with my generals!
they are USELESS!!!
my king has 120 bodyguards(60chartiots) and he has 1 gold chevrons and gold defence and attack icon! (+10 to attack and defence)
and he is my best general aswell (8stars) and when i get him to fight a single noob LEVY CLUBMAN he does nothing!

Belgae Armoured General (1 gold chevron and +3melee&defence) VS. LEVYCLUBMAN(noobs)
result is:
Belgae Armoured General : all killed including my leader | LevyClubman:40men killed (30from my missiles and 10 from the melee)

is this a bug or what!??! they are useless and BUGGY! when they charge they kill 5-6 levy clubmans and when they stop they simply do nothing and just wait until they die!
i remember that vanilla chariots had daggers in they wheels which made them deadly but my general doesn't have that and i useless! he only scares enemy off and does nothing in the real combat:|

what's the prob!?

BTW i'm playing Belgae on H/H nad RTW-Bi.exe and fighting with a single rebel levy clubman with my mighty leader!
AND I CAN WIN THEM EASILY(10dead) VIA AUTO-RESOLVE.

**the man, the myth, the legend** · August 16, 2013, 08:36 AM

First of all, you'd get a lot more help if you didn't post that something is useless and buggy, when obviously it's you and your lack of skill that is the problem. Chariots are only dangerous if they're moving, as soon as it stops moving it completely vulnerable. Why would anyone use a chariot if they were just gonna slug it out in a melee? Keep it moving, if they stop, they're dead. The only thing it should be use for is to chase away light cavalry, pepper the enemy with javelins from a distance(preferably from behind), chase down routers, and maybe for a final charge. Wondering why chariots can't beat melee infantry in a melee, is like wondering why melee infantry can't beat archers from a distance.

**Darth Bane1** · August 16, 2013, 12:55 PM

*sigh*

Because this unit is only good in skirmishing, rather then fighting... And the highest rule in Total War: NEVER get your general in melee...

**tungri_centurio** · August 16, 2013, 05:19 PM

no chariots other than sythed chariots can attack melee troops.generals on horse you can use in melee darthbane. how do you get great commanders than?

**nikzi76** · August 17, 2013, 02:12 AM

@theman,themyth,the legend: i just wanted to test the strength of the chariot, i ran a test battle just to see how much they kill(because i saw them screwing up in melee before) i'm not that stupid to run my ALONE chariot leader to enemy lines... and by useless i meant their 1v1 strength which seems i was wrong and the reason is: i never played with a chariot faction and i somehow got it wrong! i thought they must be better at this... now i should stick to my tactic(not engaging chariots in everything

)
as for BUGGY i didn't mean their strength! they have issues on moving and pathfinding specially in cities! i meant that.
thanks for help anyways...
@DarthBane1: i believe their not even good at skrimishing

they aren't as manouverable as light cav and don't throw much missiles and they also move so buggy and badly

i just hold them behind my army so they throw some JAVs and inspire my troops. and about that RULE of yours i must say you are half right/half wrong. we must not engage our generals in bad situations but they have good bodyguards and i always use them alongside my cavalry and i have no problem (i don't get them killed BTW

) the generals in M2tw and RTW are so good but in ETW,NTW,S2TW the general is the first guy that dies(at least for me

) so i believe your tactic is true in the later games but not comletely true in RTW and M2TW...
thanks for reply...
@tungri_centurio: yeah, you're right! thanks for help.

and one question: WHY THE CHARIOTS DON'T EVEN TRY TO ENGAGE IN MELEE!? is this the RTW's problem or it is REALISTIC/HISTORICALLY ACCURATE!?
i mean that if we have 2guys on every chariot 1guy is riding the chariot so i don't expect him to fight but the other guy is just standing there with a spear in his hand like a statue shouldn't him try to kill the guys who are attacking the chariot!?

thanks again guys

**ur-Lord Tedric** · August 17, 2013, 05:40 AM

Chariots are, and always were, not a shock unit (with the exception of the, almost mythical and not commonly used (like flaming pigs, stampeding oxen, wardogs, etc) scythed chariots - that were a 'blindfold the horses' fire-once and forget weapon). The earliest Egyptian (Assad, Summerian, etc) ones tended to be used because the horses were not large nor particularly suitable to be ridden and training hadn't really progressed that far) and even thereafter were more used to carry missile troops (Eastern were archers, Western were more spears/javelins). They are, therefore, almost always used as missile troops (not wholly dissimilar to Light Cavalry).

One of the major issues is a game-related one, however, that Huge (unit setting) is almost definitely too large for European (mainly trees) battlefields.....

What your General should be used for is inspiring your troops (from behind); supporting them with firepower (don't use autofire); charging from flanks, or from the rear, if it is suitable (but don't let him get bogged down); and absolutely brilliant to keep as a fresh unit for running down routers.

In all fairness, whilst the old-Celtic (Belgae, Britons, Picts, etc) leaders did use chariots, it is not the most useful of weapons - but it does look impressive and you get a driver - and this is why it remained. The Romans used chariots, but only for important people (chaufferred) and racing - not for warfare - and that says a lot. :-)

**Smargoos** · August 17, 2013, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by ur-Lord Tedric

Chariots are, and always were, not a shock unit (with the exception of the, almost mythical and not commonly used (like flaming pigs, stampeding oxen, wardogs, etc) scythed chariots - that were a 'blindfold the horses' fire-once and forget weapon). The earliest Egyptian (Assad, Summerian, etc) ones tended to be used because the horses were not large nor particularly suitable to be ridden and training hadn't really progressed that far) and even thereafter were more used to carry missile troops (Eastern were archers, Western were more spears/javelins). They are, therefore, almost always used as missile troops (not wholly dissimilar to Light Cavalry).

One of the major issues is a game-related one, however, that Huge (unit setting) is almost definitely too large for European (mainly trees) battlefields.....

What your General should be used for is inspiring your troops (from behind); supporting them with firepower (don't use autofire); charging from flanks, or from the rear, if it is suitable (but don't let him get bogged down); and absolutely brilliant to keep as a fresh unit for running down routers.

In all fairness, whilst the old-Celtic (Belgae, Britons, Picts, etc) leaders did use chariots, it is not the most useful of weapons - but it does look impressive and you get a driver - and this is why it remained. The Romans used chariots, but only for important people (chaufferred) and racing - not for warfare - and that says a lot. :-)

Kinda off topic but now I remember a documentary I watched about Chinese wagons/chariots that were pulled by horses. Wagon was filled with crossbows that were connected to the wheels with strings that would shoot crossbows after some time. When being used they lit horses tails and horses began running towards enemy.

**Kenny Works** · August 17, 2013, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by ur-Lord Tedric

Chariots are, and always were, not a shock unit (with the exception of the, almost mythical and not commonly used (like flaming pigs, stampeding oxen, wardogs, etc) scythed chariots - that were a 'blindfold the horses' fire-once and forget weapon). The earliest Egyptian (Assad, Summerian, etc) ones tended to be used because the horses were not large nor particularly suitable to be ridden and training hadn't really progressed that far) and even thereafter were more used to carry missile troops (Eastern were archers, Western were more spears/javelins). They are, therefore, almost always used as missile troops (not wholly dissimilar to Light Cavalry). . . .

In all fairness, whilst the old-Celtic (Belgae, Britons, Picts, etc) leaders did use chariots, it is not the most useful of weapons - but it does look impressive and you get a driver - and this is why it remained. The Romans used chariots, but only for important people (chaufferred) and racing - not for warfare - and that says a lot. :-)

^^^^ This. Although I always look forward to a few chariots on the battlefield, so I can run them down with my Roman auxilia cavalry.

In the original RTW, if your general didn't fight, you received negative traits. I've not noticed any yet in RSII 2.5, but as others have said, I use my generals to kill routers - some every battle. In a pinch, I might use them to encircle an enemy and attack from the rear, Macedonian-style. I never, ever, ever, ever charge cavalry into the front of a line. Not when I have good, strong legion cohorts to do that.

**Archesel** · August 17, 2013, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by ur-Lord Tedric

What your General should be used for is inspiring your troops (from behind);

Could be their most important use. If i remember well, chariot scares enemy infantry: this and the general inspiration bonus give a great boost to your troops...

**Darth Bane1** · August 17, 2013, 06:44 AM

With this rule I meant that your general doesn't get in melee that he can't win... Of course you can youse him. I use my riden generals to hunt routers... With the Spartan generals, that's another thing...

@tungri_centurio
It's not so important that your generals fight in battles. Generals get better in military and get better traits when they won many battles. He doesn't need to fight. The battle counter plays the role. I see it in every of my campaigns. My most used generals always get the highest command and many, many military traits and ancillaries.

**High Fist** · August 20, 2013, 12:22 PM

Just keeping the general alive helps.

**dvk901** · August 20, 2013, 07:56 PM

In RS2 and the upcoming 2.6, Generals do not get negative traits for not fighting in battles (which includes autoresole battles),. However, they will advance faster and gain stars more quickly if they do fight and kill a few men. But really, whether a chariot or a cavalryman, a General should not be used to charge into any kind of infantry unless it's into the back....and even then, only in desperation. A multi-starred General is too great a prize to use him as a regular cavalry unit...or regular unit period. It will gain him nothing, and more likely get him killed.