New Sub Mod Idea -- Need Your Input!

**Fozzie** · August 15, 2013, 08:46 PM

Hello guys and gals,

This is the first sub mod I've ever considered making. I want to implement the Mouth of Sauron. I know there has been heated debate in the past on whether the Mouth of Sauron should be implemented as a diplomat, custom general, or permanent governor. I decided I would poll the people to see firstly whether they would be receptive to this idea, and secondly how they would like to see the MoS implemented.

Obviously, the ultimate decision would be mine, but I would like to please the people. I'm planning on making this a side project in my free time over the course of the semester, so it could be a bit before it's finished (chemistry is time consuming

).

NOTES:

If I made him a diplomat: He would be a diplomat of Mordor from the start, and he would probably have a lot of movement points considering his mount. This would help Mordor establish alliances and trade connections early on, which could assist their rather poor early economy.

If I made him a permanent governor: He probably would be stationed at Barad-dûr, and he would be given the corresponding title and ancillary, "Lieutenant of Barad-dûr." The only real difference between this option and the moveable general option is, obviously, he only would be capable of presiding as governor over his designated settlement. He would be a powerful governor, and he would also replace a generic starting orc general to compensate wages. I also was kicking around the idea of forcing this option on the AI if the player was not playing as Mordor. In other words, the player would be able use him however he or she wishes, but with the AI playing as Mordor, the Mouth would be forced to stay in his settlement much the way the MOS Team kept Saruman, Elrond, and Denethor stationary at their respective capitals for the AI.

If I made him a moveable general: He again would be given the title and ancillary "Lieutenant of Barad-dûr" from the beginning, and he again would replace one of the generic starting orc generals. He probably would behave similarly to the Nazgûl, with a regiment of Black Númenóreans and his own unique special ability. I know many are concerned about creating yet another regiment of regenerating Black Númenóreans. The actual bodyguard of the Mouth could be subject to debate, assuming this option is popular. I considered giving him a bodyguard of Dismounted Black Númenóreans to compensate.

Please vote, and let me know what you think by replying! Please keep it civil!

Edit: You should also know that in terms of appearance, I'm leaning toward the appearance used in Peter Jackson's Return of the King. I know they took some liberties there, but frankly, I was 9 when the Fellowship came out in theaters, so it's hard for me to imagine many of the Tolkien characters in any other way. I also rather like the way he was portrayed.

Thanks!
Fozzie

**AdmiralThrawn** · August 16, 2013, 02:37 AM

Cool idea! I've always felt that Mordor got kinda screwed on the diplomatic front in that it takes awhile for them to get their diplomats into the field and talking to the other powers. Plus, giving him crazy good diplomatic skills would make it easier for Sauron to have his way with his minions.

I'm not sure how hard this is to implement, but would it be possible to have him do both? Maybe Mordor could get missions to send General Mouth to some allied capitol. Upon arrival said ally agrees to trade rights, gives up their map info, and hands over a small stack of units. This way the Mouth of Sauron would be the harbinger of darkness, uniting the forces of evil under Mordor's rule (I assume someone important was responsible for that sort of thing as Sauron was only able to email Sarumon).

Again, I'm not sure how hard this would be, but if completed it would be really cool!

**Mr.Jox** · August 16, 2013, 12:15 PM

100% Mouth of Sauron must to be a general. Once i have read that Mouth of Sauron rode Mordor's Army.
And one more: If you will make Mouth as diplomate it will be much less interesting=>not necessary.

**SuperAnt** · August 16, 2013, 12:27 PM

Good project

Sauron, according to what the Mouth of Sauron said to the Captains of the West at the Black Gates in the books, planned to give Orthanc to him so I think that he should be a moveable general.

( and Jox is right, more fun to have him as general )

**Jmonstra** · August 16, 2013, 12:43 PM

Mordor already starts with a large amount of generals though. Though having never played Mordor before, I don't know what benefits could be gained by having a skilled diplomat. Aren't there scripts which deter the evil factions from fighting amongst each other, and don't all the good factions hate you from the get go?

Perhaps the faction's needs would be best served if he was used as a permanent governor at the Black Gate or another important settlement?

**Fozzie** · August 17, 2013, 12:28 AM

I like the discussion. Please, anyone, if you have an opinion on the matter, feel free to respond. I would like as much input as possible. I'll only take this in one direction, but I still want to make you guys happy!

Thanks!
Fozzie

**Ngugi** · August 17, 2013, 07:39 AM

If you want to read trough some discussion on the topic (as it naturally been up before hehe), here's a 4 page thread with potential solutions for the MoS, arguments for and against, lore etc
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...outh-of-Sauron

**Mr.Jox** · August 17, 2013, 09:34 AM

btw You can also make a little choice-script. The script will ask what form of Mouth of Sauron do you want to add? And put there 3 kinds of your suggestion then after choosing just spawn your general/diplomate/governor for Mordor. If you need some support ask me in PM i can help you with a script.

**Dude with the Food** · August 18, 2013, 03:11 PM

Moveable general although I'd give more management traits than command to portray his role. If you're worried about more Black Numenorians then is there a way to reduce the number of men in those units?

**Fozzie** · August 18, 2013, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Dude with the Food

Moveable general although I'd give more management traits than command to portray his role. If you're worried about more Black Numenorians then is there a way to reduce the number of men in those units?

I would have to look into it. I know in Vanilla TATW, it wouldn't be a problem. With the latest MOS, I know the number in bodyguard changes depending on the authority of the general. I'm sure that even there an exception can be made.

**Bladvak** · August 19, 2013, 07:34 AM

Another Grima that bribes my armies? No thanks.

Another Black Numenorean BG wondering through my lands? No thanks. Besides, as Mikail Mengsk so solidly put it : He wasn't a general (though with bodyguards...)

Another highly skilled governor? Wait, what's the other skilled orc governor that you know? I bet even you can count them all on an war-battered orc hand (i.e. only 2 fingers). btw, I did say orc, not Nazguls or Saruman.

I don't find the Mouth of Sauron to be well placed in Barad-dur since that's Sauron's seat and he doesn't share power (filthy Maia as he is), but the MoS could be seated in the Black Gate. So my vote is for the governor. If possible, to be seated in the Black Gate, if not, I'm fine with Barad-dur as well.