units seem to mosh around eachother like in ETW

[hrissker]

Hello, im just fearing that the combat will resemble ETW's problem with mushing units together, where they run into each other but don't engage in a combat animation sequence. What im trying to explain here is a little difficult for me to explain haha, so I will post the link to the AI battle skirmish bout and give you the time to look at the video where a good example of this "mushing" comes about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQrOH-8HKhU- at 16:01 to 16:07 the units seem to be just standing and moving around one another and not actually fighting so to speak, now I do apologize for making another one of these "SANDALS WRONG" threads but I do want some answers on this topic, and I also wanted my own thread for it because most of the other ones will fill their answers to my question with biased propaganda and or troll it....

So someone please tell me if this sort of AI behaivor was in shogun two, I do play it regulary but I never look at it, and if it is, it will soothe my mind to know I wont notice it as Im playing the game. As most of you know we all tend to see many more problems when were not actually playing XD

[Bearnation54]

This has been an issue ever since ETW, was even in shogun 2 pretty annoying but hopefully it won't be as bad as empire

[theDaedricPrince]

The AI is always like this. It looks stupid, but CA has never thought about finding the solution. We're just gonna have to live with it

[hrissker]

ah, well thank you, please continue to comment Yea in empire it was BAD

[DrSane]

Yer, they'll do that. Has to do entirely with the engine. It was built for 18th century line infantry warfare, and it doesn't help it was also made with empire, the biggest catastrophe in there series (heres a quick bit of prostituting my video about empire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naQaRIaXyAU , dont mind the retard in the comments). My assumption is that they removed unit collision in that engine so individual soldiers could run directly to there places in the line and get ready to fire, a short cut to make up for bad ai pathing (not that it worked). Now they are still building games off this inherently flawed engine but for close combat. The saddest point I suppose is that when they finally worked out how to use the engine in FOTS it actually works very well for ranged warfare. Just absolutely nothing else.

[Dominian]

It definitely makes an attack from behind easier... but I agree. From an aesthetical point of view the insane clashing of armies as seen in e.g. Braveheart fills me with joy. With horsemen and light infantry the units definitely should mingle a little more than they seem to do in the footage we have seen. But do not fret: darthmod might come to our all rescue!

[DrSane]

But do not fret: darthmod might come to our all rescue!

Darth retired: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...rement-message

[Dominian]

Darth retired: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...rement-message

He said this before. If the game is great and he plays it he might be back.

[Daily]

In Shogun 2 they had that entire honorable 1v1 battle claim to excuse this. Luckily though units actually collide. In Empire they just kept running.

[anitayxec]

It looks stupid, but CA has never thought about finding the solution.

[SughdianWarrior]

Judging by the looks of it, there is indeed a collision system this time. Theres still that standing around business though, after the lines collide, until soldiers find their "animation pairs". Some find slower than others, which causes the idle stance for a second or two. Though in real melee you dont have this time. Not as bad as Shogun 2 but its still there.

[JaM]

much bigger problem is collision system.. if you check the video about port battle vs samnites, you can notice that charging roman unit which is blocked by some obstacle continues charging in a snake like formation.. Also, if you select three units and order them to attack single enemy unit, all three units would try to get into single spot in enemy formation, which is usually in the middle.. so practically they would move forward while colliding together so they would practically occupy same space as they approach the enemy..

All these issues are in TW games for some time, and were never addressed. And from these published videos it is obvious they were not fixed even in Rome2..

[SughdianWarrior]

much bigger problem is collision system.. if you check the video about port battle vs samnites, you can notice that charging roman unit which is blocked by some obstacle continues charging in a snake like formation..

I somehow missed that. Watched prologue again, didn't see a Roman unit attacking in a snake formation.

Also, if you select three units and order them to attack single enemy unit, all three units would try to get into single spot in enemy formation, which is usually in the middle.. so practically they would move forward while colliding together so they would practically occupy same space as they approach the enemy..

I think all they do is follow the shortest possible route to enemy. If they're lined up next to each other (which is mostly the case) their target points would be close to each other, with units eventually overlapping as they approach the enemy unit. Would be nice if units tried to avoid overlaps. This would also be handy while moving single unit of cavalry or infantry or elephants! around main army deployment. This was one of my problems in Shogun 2. When I move a horse unit around my army, there's usually plenty of space to avoid the main line, but a few horses will definitely run into it and disrupt it. Would be cool if on one click a unit tries to go around other friendly units(choosing shortest possible route), and on two/multiple clicks (meaning urgency) unit just follows the shortest route disregarding friendly units.

[TheNewKing]

For me this game is a building game for me, building up your empire.
Sadly CA have not put as much into AI as they have in other areas, its nice to see your army's fight but every battle is to easy to win.
The only time you are likely to be beaten by the AI is if they have many more troops than you.
Other than that its just a walk in a park.

[JaM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1LiN0M7pOs

2:57 - building blocking one of the units, check how they charge..

[SughdianWarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1LiN0M7pOs

2:57 - building blocking one of the units, check how they charge..

Right, seems like there are a few prologue battles going around. To be honest, I think they had little choice/space/time in this occasion. I was even surprised they didn't charge head on with the "head" of the snake but went forward a bit and then changed direction(3:06 - 3:07), so more soldiers were facing the enemy.

[SughdianWarrior]

3:23 - 3:24 of that same prologue shows what sort of effect overlapping can have. Almost half of the second hastati unit got stuck behind the first one that was already engaged. What I explained earlier, regarding units avoiding friendly units, should remove problems like this.

[JaM]

still, it would be better if that unit just stopped once passed the building, and reformed the formation before the charge. That would be what human would do..

Also, regarding the selection of more units issue - it should not be a huge problem for them to fix it, as all they need to do is to make selected units to behave same way as if they were grouped together.. that way they would march/charge forward, keeping the intended formation and not mixing together, which would look much better... its a shame they didnt spend more time betatesting to catch such issues back then... i guess now its too late to fix it even if they wanted..

[perablenta]

I know I know!

What annoys me the most is how two cavalry units collide. It's like watching two boxes of cardboard hit each other, there isn't even an illusion of a unit made up of 60 men and horses. It's like watching a cardboard box that is drilled with enough holes and connected by wire so it looks less like a solid object but it still is a solid object, one whole.

And that whole thing about the attack point being in the center mass of a unit and all the units you send to attack it converge on the exact same point.

Not to mention how sending several units at once on the attack order messes up their formation. CA should have spent more time on that and less on making afful looking unit cards and magic buffs.