Iron out Total War tech myths

[alQamar]

That is not correct. Even if the application is 32 bit, the graphics card might use more than 2GB of VRAM. All graphical settings which are primarily performed by the graphics card drivers might result in more than 2GB VRAM usage, essentially independent of the game engine . Best example is AA and especially SSAA. With 4xSSAA @ 2560x1440, Shogun 2 uses about 2,4GB of VRAM. With 8xSSAA it would probably be over 3GB. Triple buffering would be another example of a driver feature which raises the VRAM usage.

It's still true that in most circumstances, TW games don't need more than 2GB of VRAM but it's not impossible for the game/graphics driver to exceed 2GB of VRAM usage when using high screen resultion + MSAA/SSAA settings.

Yes that's true what you said but on the other hand shogun2 is downgrading graphics features even if you have plenty VRAM. Why that if there is no relation to the 32bit border.

[alQamar]

That is not correct. Even if the application is 32 bit, the graphics card might use more than 2GB of VRAM. All graphical settings which are primarily performed by the graphics card drivers might result in more than 2GB VRAM usage, essentially independent of the game engine . Best example is AA and especially SSAA. With 4xSSAA @ 2560x1440, Shogun 2 uses about 2,4GB of VRAM. With 8xSSAA it would probably be over 3GB. Triple buffering would be another example of a driver feature which raises the VRAM usage.

It's still true that in most circumstances, TW games don't need more than 2GB of VRAM but it's not impossible for the game/graphics driver to exceed 2GB of VRAM usage when using high screen resultion + MSAA/SSAA settings.

Well the Myth points to performance in speed. What you are pointing out is that there are scenarios where you need more than 2GB VRAM. Like high resolution above 1080p
3D glasses or SSAA. I will update the Myth accordingly to it. Thanks.

[A Barbarian]

Well the Myth points to performance in speed. What you are pointing out is that there are scenarios where you need more than 2GB VRAM. Like high resolution above 1080p
3D glasses or SSAA. I will update the Myth accordingly to it. Thanks.

If you exceed the VRAM of your graphics card because you set the MSAA/SSAA setting too high, you will encounter texture swapping which introduces sudden slow-downs for a few seconds until the new textures are swapped in.

Since higher MSAA/SSAA settings cost a lot of performance you often hit the performance ceiling first before you run out of VRAM memory. But especially with SLI/CF configurations, you often have enough horsepower for high AA settings and then 2GB VRAM can be a limit even today. That's why I always recommend to get 3GB/4GB cards when you plan on using SLI/CF. That is of course if you want high AA. Some people just want maximum FPS for their 120Hz or 140Hz monitors in which case AA has to be relatively low saving you VRAM memory.

[A Barbarian]

With everything on ultra and 4xSSAA on 2560x1440 Shogun 2 does not seem to downgrade anything in my configuration with 2x7970 3GB cards. At least there is no downgrading info in the AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Shogun2\logs gfx.log file and I also can't see any downgrading visually.

I remember that before with my 1GB GTX560TI card I had to manually enter 1.5GB VRAM in order to keep all the ultra settings so I know what you are talking about in principal.

[alQamar]

Updated the Myth barbarian. Thanks for support.

[alQamar]

Hi again,

I heard about another tech myth, that is not specifically to Rome or Total War but also worth to be mentioned here imho.

Myth: If I got a 1 GB graphics card and add another one with 1GB VRAM via SLI / Crossfire I can choose higher details as I have then 2 GB VRAM.
Answer: Honestly I am not experienced with SLI / Crossfire solutions a lot but someone that knows this business confirmed this myth is really wrong
The additional graphics card will not ADD VRAM to the other but you have then 2 cards sharing 1 GB. So unlike to system RAM you cannot add physically or virtually more VRAM by pairing cards.

[boxleitnerb]

^ yes, it's wrong. VRAM doesn't add in SLI/CF.

[Xcam901]

Well I better go find another game on my quest for a game that can use my three titans...

[alQamar]

Edited my OP and sorted it. Hope you like it. XCAM your results would be cool in the benchmark thread aswell. We do not have a triple SLI now can you do it please?

I think there is no application that can really load your 3 Titans except you aid Dreamworks Studios for a new movie

[boxleitnerb]

His results won't be any different from mine due to the CPU bottleneck. It would require 1440/1600p + SGSSAA for that

[alQamar]

Maybe we should test it

[alQamar]

Did you already got the game to play the Mythbuster?

Prometheus just necro to show my "visions" are still valid (refer to your post #2 ;p

Nothing* changed somehow. So next time please trust me in case of such technical things. I don't need a finished game at hand to come to logical conclusions.

*Only AMD CPU issues have been in eliminated with Rome 2 in case of core utilisation still they do not supersede Intel CPUs.

[♔atthias♔]

@alQamar I have a question about this Myth: Intel i7 cores are the best effort for Total War and hyperthreading give you an extra boost playing this game.
Answer: No unfortunately it is even contraproductive and SLOWS Total War, especially if you have a SLI configuration. On the other hand on desktop Intel i3, hyperthreading helps to improve your performance significantly. To avoid these performance issues please read the benchmark thread (optimisation)

do you mean here that hypertreading slows total war or do you mean the intel i7 core?
sorry if this is already answered
greetings atthias

[alQamar]

Hi Atthias,

wow you buried out this old gem

I was about to say that if you have an i3 (2 physical cores + HT) Hyperthreading will help to improve performance, while the gap between and i5 (4 physical cores no HT) and i7 (4 physical cores + HT) were, and are still marginal in Total War titles at least.

[♔atthias♔]

Hi Atthias,

wow you buried out this old gem

I was about to say that if you have an i3 (2 physical cores + HT) Hyperthreading will help to improve performance, while the gap between and i5 (4 physical cores no HT) and i7 (4 physical cores + HT) were, and are still marginal in Total War titles at least.

but is helps even a little bit? but anyway thanks for the answer
greetings attthias

[alQamar]

i7 won't help much for the current TW games, it is seriously wasted money. I don't have high hopes for Warhammer, as they haven't redone the engine from what I know.

[♔atthias♔]

i7 won't help much for the current TW games, it is seriously wasted money. I don't have high hopes for Warhammer, as they haven't redone the engine from what I know.

ok thanks
greetings atthias

[alQamar]

you're welcome!

[Melvasul]

Part of this should be updated due to the newer TW's games and their perception(utilisation) about hardware

TW runs faster on an octa-core or hexacore instead of a quad core CPU
No more true due to their utilisation(now) to up to 10cores(see this: http://www.pcgamer.com/total-war-war...ear-into-cpus/ I hope this would get an update with Ryzen, I even asked for but it did not get)

TW runs faster on high OC RAM (above 1600 MHz)
Not true, completely, due to DDR4(nowadays) and their scalability with Ryzen(due to Infinite Fabric) and Intel(even though a bit less), regarding ram for example it's seen as higher speed ram, with a cap to 3000-3200MHz to see no more boost, will not give you higher average fps(or peak one) but you will get better 1% and 0.1% fps(the one that tends to matter) but this could not apply, completely, to the TW's engine, however, it has not affected until Rome2, maybe with TW: W there's a chance to have it completely true

TW runs faster with a graphics card with more than 2 GB RAM
Not wrong at all, I explain: if you (for example) need a higher amount of VRAM than needed you will get high FPS loss(see, for example, how the FuryX works with Doom on Nightmare when the VRAM needed to exceed it's 4GB available giving it some down-spikes)

I'm still in doubt about the SSD not leading to a faster turn change, I've had controversy results, for example, I see no change in the first(~50) turns, whereas I noticed some different with HHD in high turns(~+150) but it's still a "boh" even though it all

[alQamar]

Hi Melwasul, sorry for the late reply and your interesting heads up! I was not online on TWC for a longer time due to reallife stuff.