HAN ZHI SHANG v1.03 Released!

[Seba14]

Ah ok, thanks, now I get the point of it...I also tried to contact the members who started this thread without any success...I'll try again to check directly on 1mod.org if I can get in touch with somebody regarding this issue...I find you both teams have done a great job and it's a shame to end on those last words...Last but not least, I managed to create a basic translation patch...but won't put it for DL before Seether agrees and this problem's sorted out...Thank you for your reply

[The Blade That Was Broken]

Ah ok, thanks, now I get the point of it...I also tried to contact the members who started this thread without any success...I'll try again to check directly on 1mod.org if I can get in touch with somebody regarding this issue...I find you both teams have done a great job and it's a shame to end on those last words...Last but not least, I managed to create a basic translation patch...but won't put it for DL before Seether agrees and this problem's sorted out...Thank you for your reply

You're welcome

As long as the patch does not contain material from us, you may release it. If it contains material from us, then you will have to wait for our approval. Currently PCS has not responded any PMs within the last 3 months, so it is unlikely that this problem will be sorted out soon.

[Falconwatch]

Coming from someone new to this mod, I find it extremely weird and unfair that you guys are using literally all assets
from the original three kingdom team's RTW version, all their models, art assets and such, the whole concept.

Yet you do not allow them to use your simple translations on the team's M2TW version? Seriously this doesn't make any sense...

[Seba14]

Hi there, Thebladethatwasbroken explained earlier that they took Backbone's studios work, not Pillars of Creation...in any case I've been tryin to get in touch with Rocky from PCS wihtout any success...I'll try later on the Chinese mod website and hpefully we'll get this sorted out, as it may be a misunderstanding from the beginning Also, I've done part of a brand new translation (Mainly for Shu) as events and scripts are different...anybody willing to help ?

[Falconwatch]

Ehh but Backbone studio is the same one as Pillars of Creation studio, it's just another fancy way of saying it,
柱子工作室 is their name, it can be translated to Column/Pillar/Backbone etc. It all mean the same thing.

[Seba14]

Ehh but Backbone studio is the same one as Pillars of Creation studio, it's just another fancy way of saying it,
柱子工作室 is their name, it can be translated to Column/Pillar/Backbone etc. It all mean the same thing.

Is it ? Well that's good news...let's be formal and get things done the way Rotk Team wants, main thing is to contact the PCS team, (also to get updated as to the newly released version) then we may have a chance to satisfy everybody (I understand both points, but let's not forget the Zhongguo Team has released their mod on Twcenter, which I guess is mainly western-oriented, though they really don't need this to have followers) it's all about providing everybody with the best of both worlds here, could we work together for once ?

Thebladethatwasbroken If you could confirm Pcs and BS are the same team, it would make a great difference as to the fairness question (Kongming sure would agree^^)

Definitetly this evening I'll post on 1mod.org and try to get in touch with relevant person

[Seba14]

Ok...almost impossible, they are just a bunch of non-pros who released the mod

Edit : by non-pros I meant non payed

[The Blade That Was Broken]

Ehh but Backbone studio is the same one as Pillars of Creation studio, it's just another fancy way of saying it,
柱子工作室 is their name, it can be translated to Column/Pillar/Backbone etc. It all mean the same thing.

Backbone Studio and PCS are not the same. Many team members have left in the PCS transformation (including major team members and mod leads), and since then, we had to change contacts.

PCS has, as I stated earlier, stolen material without any apology, and actually refused to respond since 3 months we tried contact them, and that is something that cannot be ignored. We will give the team it's permission to use our material when they have apologized. Also, as I stated earlier, the new patch that is coming out will change all of the current models, art assets, therefore majority of the current will be removed.

It was stated in the contract with BBS that we were allowed to use all of their models, in exchange for credit. This contract does not apply for PCS, since the team lead and members have changed.

@Seba14: I already told you that you could ask Seether or Gigantus for permission, but it would be under certain conditions, and most likely will not be approved until this problem has been resolved. I understand that you are frustrated, but please do not use insults directed at any individual. Gigantus is a one of the head moderators here, I assure you that we know what we are doing here.

[Seba14]

Hi, no insults at all, no worries, I didn't mean to offend anybody...I just saw on Pillars of Creation's page that Gigantus is mentionned as part of their team...However I couldn't find any contact as to the Hanzhishang Team...I'll drop a message to both Seether and Gigantus today to ask permission and take it from there

[Falconwatch]

Backbone and Pillar studios ARE the same, call it 柱子工作室 if you will if you don't want to be confused. The fact is both of those names mean the same thing, and they are exactly the same in Chinese. Nor has there been any transformation from BBS to PCS, 柱子 is a mod studio, it has different projects under its wings, Three Kingdom Total War for Rome and Han Zhi Shang for Medieval 2 are their two official ones. Members from the RTW team have worked on or at least helped in certain ways on the M2TW mod, such as 老新, xszyjzh and wmh1980 who is still "Team planning and co-ordinator" for the M2TW version too.

I suggest you to review your credit list as well. When you ask for permission about the mod's resources, you ask for it from the whole mod studio, not individual members or project teams, since any difference between the two is arbitrary anyway. It's like if you try to ask the Call of Warhammer mod team for their resources, you automatically ask it from SiCh studio as well, there's no difference.

Also members from the RTW did not leave modding, they are still there and will update the Rome version to the next full release at their time schedule. You're really just complicating things around here.

[Seba14]

I just left messages to the 3 concerned persons here, thanks Falconwatch for helping and Thebladethatwasbroken for taking time...we've done what we could I think to get this sorted out, now it's Rotk's team turn to show benevolence as to a possible use of PART of their text...anyway, I may release a hand-made set of files soon at least to make the game understandable

[Seether]

@ Falconwatch
As you were not a part of the original discussions between Gigantus and the Backbone team, in regard to porting of the RTW mod, and have not been a part of the discussions between myself and Backbone or Pillar, what you are saying is nothing short of speculation and conjecture. Please do not try to dictate to anyone on an issue you know very little about.

@Seba14
I will be sending you a private message shortly.

[Falconwatch]

So, one must be within the RoTK mod team in order for what they're saying to be true? I'm sorry but what kind of messed up logic is this?
It doesn't take much for a third party to dig through some forum threads to find out what's really going on. What you're saying is just plain rude
and senseless. By the way, I have been following 柱子 studio's development for some years, helped out with historical resource collection too,
so I do have a fair amount of understanding about what's going on in fact.

I'm not "speculating and conjecturing" anything here, or "dictating" anyone, just pointing out some plain facts. Do you even read HanZi? If so you
should have no trouble reading their announcement here:
http://www.1mod.org/thread-3053-1-1.html

There is no difference between Backbone or Pillar, it's the exact same mod studio called 柱子, even Han Zhi Shang is based on the version 1.9 of the
RTW mod, the one which you are trying to port. So please, the next time you barge in here and randomly denying other people and calling names,
please stop since you're only damaging your team's image.

[Seba14]

Ok Seether, Thanks and I replied, and thanks Falconwatch for giving your point of view...Anyway, please ceasefire now, we are all grown-up persons ! Could we just come to an agreement ? Please ?

[Seether]

I see what's going on here...

Coming from someone new to this mod,

By the way, I have been following 柱子 studio's development for some years, helped out with historical resource collection too

If you're going to come here using deception to push an ulterior motive, at least be better at hiding it. You aren't the first person from 1mod to perform this little circus act, and you very well could be the same person as before. In light of this, consider discussion on this closed. No further comment from the RoTK team will be made on the matter outside of official channels between us and the designated Pillars team representative.

[The Blade That Was Broken]

So, one must be within the RoTK mod team in order for what they're saying to be true? I'm sorry but what kind of messed up logic is this?
It doesn't take much for a third party to dig through some forum threads to find out what's really going on. What you're saying is just plain rude
and senseless. By the way, I have been following 柱子 studio's development for some years, helped out with historical resource collection too,
so I do have a fair amount of understanding about what's going on in fact.

I'm not "speculating and conjecturing" anything here, or "dictating" anyone, just pointing out some plain facts. Do you even read HanZi? If so you
should have no trouble reading their announcement here:
http://www.1mod.org/thread-3053-1-1.html

There is no difference between Backbone or Pillar, it's the exact same mod studio called 柱子, even Han Zhi Shang is based on the version 1.9 of the
RTW mod, the one which you are trying to port. So please, the next time you barge in here and randomly denying other people and calling names,
please stop since you're only damaging your team's image.

And next time before you start randomly accusing people of doing things, when you haven't even read the whole conversation, think before you insult a moderator's (Gigantus) decisions, and twist up others words. I assure you that we know more than you know about this situation. If you really think you know everything about this issue, go find a solution, rather than barging meaningless and insulting words at us, and especially to a head moderator's team.

If you had read the whole conversation, you would know that nowhere have we denied to allow permission for use of our materials nor has PCS contacted us to use our material. The issue here is PCS has used our material WITHOUT PERMISSION, which is fined-lined in the TOS as ILLEGAL, and has refused to apologize.

And yes, I can read perfectly fine. I don't see anywhere in the announcement saying that NO team members have ever left. I stated specifically earlier that we have legally acquired with permission from their team, and nowhere does any contract state that you are required to hand over your own team's materials, even after insults and ignored for 3 months. If you don't like how things are, go complain to their team, and not us.

As Seether stated above, if you from 1mod, your attempt to acquire permission for your team is only damaging your own and your team's image.

...In light of this, consider discussion on this closed. No further comment from the RoTK team will be made on the matter outside of official channels between us and the designated Pillars team representative.

[Gigantus]

I suggest you to review your credit list as well. When you ask for permission about the mod's resources, you ask for it from the whole mod studio, not individual members or project teams, since any difference between the two is arbitrary anyway.

• The credits are exactly as requested by the mod leader, as is the logo on the splash screen, in exchange for agreed upon material from the RTW version that is being used.
• My name is in the credits of 1mod.org as I assisted the original 1mod.org team with the script and map while we were in contact.
• We never received a request from any mod\team leader of 1mod.org to use material from our RotK mod and hence the copy\paste job of our painstaking translation is particularly upsetting.
• We do uphold a modder code (use of material without permission etc) here on TWCenter which is anchored in the ToS as has been pointed out. Being an administrator of this site I do hold my team to high standards where this matter is concerned.

Kindly try to obtain information the next time, that way you avoid making baseless statements.

Ok...almost impossible, they are just a bunch of non-pros who released the mod, including Gigantus....

What exactly is a non pro? This?

[lichaodamun]

please help me repair a error of han Zhi Shang 1.0:

I play to turn 18 is faulty on although me updated patch 1.5 kingdom

[Falconwatch]

I see what's going on here...

If you're going to come here using deception to push an ulterior motive, at least be better at hiding it. You aren't the first person from 1mod to perform this little circus act,

and you very well could be the same person as before. In light of this, consider discussion on this closed. No further comment from the RoTK team will be made on the matter outside

of official channels between us and the designated Pillars team representative.

Okay, so just because I helped out with their data collection and know their team structure (because I actually bothered to do a search) that automatically makes me a dupe
member of 1mod who comes here and perform little circus act? Seriously can your logic get any more twisted? I help out lots of mod teams with their resource collection,
translations, giving suggestions etc. multicultural ones too, does that automatically makes me a member of every single one of those mod teams? I am just speechless here.
In order for me to reply to this comment, I must quote from a know it all individual on here "what you are saying is nothing short of speculation and conjecture. Please do not
try to dictate to anyone on an issue you know very little about."

I am not hiding anything here, just pointing out some facts for those interested. It is you on the other hand who clearly has something to hide, I stumbled across this thread
and saw a lot of misunderstandings, such as the idea that BBS and PCS are two separate studios working on two different mods, or that the RTW version had been left to rot
and most of its members left. I came here to try my best to ease the situation and voice my own opinions too, yet you just barge in here and accuse me for some random
reasons. Seriously, you use a more cynical set of words? I think it describes your personality pretty well.

Also this isn't your board forum, this isn't even your thread. If you feel the need to post no further comment then please by all means do it. I even welcome this. But you have
absolutely NO right in randomly accusing others and telling them what to do, this is an open forum, not your private little circle.

And next time before you start randomly accusing people of doing things, when you haven't even read the whole conversation, think before

you insult a moderator's (Gigantus) decisions, and twist up others words. I assure you that we know more than you know about this situation. If you really think you know everything

about this issue, go find a solution, rather than barging meaningless and insulting words at us, and especially to a head moderator's team.

If you had read the whole conversation, you would know that nowhere have we denied to allow permission for use of our materials nor has PCS contacted us to use our material. The

issue here is PCS has used our material WITHOUT PERMISSION, which is fined-lined in the TOS as ILLEGAL, and has refused to apologize.

And yes, I can read perfectly fine. I don't see anywhere in the announcement saying that NO team members have ever left. I stated specifically earlier that we have legally acquired

with permission from their team, and nowhere does any contract state that you are required to hand over your own team's materials, even after insults and ignored for 3 months. If

you don't like how things are, go complain to their team, and not us.

As Seether stated above, if you from 1mod, your attempt to acquire permission for your team is only damaging your own and your team's image.

I am not accusing anyone of anything here, simply correcting YOUR statement with facts, I'm backing mine up with links, credit lists etc., and what exactly are you backing up
yours with? Also go ahead and point out where exactly I'm insulting gigantus and his decisions? Go on quote it if you will, voicing a fair opinion does NOT equal to insulting
a moderator, or twisting up other words. You know what? You are clearly the know it all seer who can pull out the TOS from thin air to divert the conversation right?
I'm done with you.

And if you're going to replace all the models and units from the RTW version with your own like you stated many times, then at least do it for real instead of jumping around all
the time, stop using their models then if anything you're saying is serious. I'm not associated with 1mod in any official ways, nor am I attempting to acquire permission for whatever
random things you're speculating in your mind, so I really don't know what you're on about. I have no responsibility for whatever going on between RoTK team and 柱子 studio,
it is yours as well as their job to find a solution to this mess. If you guys wants to cut ties then that's perfectly fine. This is a forum so a third party have rights to voice their
opinions on the matter.

Also are you sure you can read fine? I posted that announcement link in response to your statement that BBS and PCS are different when it is in fact the same deal. Which I have
proven you wrong. The RTW version is basically 三国I and the M2TW version is 三国II, it is the official sequel by 柱子 studio.

• The credits are exactly as requested by the mod leader, as is the logo on the splash screen, in exchange for agreed upon material from the RTW version that is being used.
• My name is in the credits of 1mod.org as I assisted the original 1mod.org team with the script and map while we were in contact.
• We never received a request from any mod\team leader of 1mod.org to use material from our RotK mod and hence the copy\paste job of our painstaking translation is particularly upsetting.
• We do uphold a modder code (use of material without permission etc) here on TWCenter which is anchored in the ToS as has been pointed out. Being an administrator of this site I do hold my team to high standards where this matter is concerned.

Kindly try to obtain information the next time, that way you avoid making baseless statements.



What exactly is a non pro? This?

Thank you gigantus for at least speaking calmly on this matter. Unlike those two who comes here and starts bashing and insulting anyone whom they disagree with, and making up
random accusations to insult a fellow forum member. This is a public forum and people have the right to post their opinion. They don't have to like it but should at least keep an
open mind about it.

Yes I am fully aware that you are on the credit list for the HZS team, I'm not denying anything you have done to help out on the project, appreciate it in fact. Nor am I saying it is
correct to take stuff from other people's work without asking for permission or even giving a notice. My friends from Beilai have had their models stolen by someone on 1mod which is
yet to be removed (not from their official team though), yes we are pissed as well but that doesn't stop me from voicing my opinion of their official mod on TWC.

The thing is RoTK really owe A LOT to the work of 柱子 studio, I think it is fair to say yours wouldn't even exist without the good foundations already set up by their RTW version.
You have stated on your dot points that yours is a translation, of THEIR original work. However painstaking it is it's still nothing compared to writing up all those thousands of detailed
descriptions and texts of their original work. Trust me I know this, you not only needs to be proficient in modern Chinese but also 文言 which is extremely hard to write up.

Even though they poured those thousands of hours of work into their mod, I'm not saying it's correct for them to just take your stuff without even asking. But what I'm trying to say
is something like this should be sorted out in the first place when your team asked for their permission, you don't give nothing or something so little in return, instead you help out in
other possible ways you can to return the favour. This is how it works in all my years in the modding scene, since we're all just a bunch of people banding together to create the games
we want.

[Gigantus]

The thing is RoTK really owe A LOT to the work of 柱子 studio, I think it is fair to say yours wouldn't even exist without the good foundations already set up by their RTW version.

I explicitly mentioned this circumstance in the opening of my mod introduction. In fact the forum header says that it is a porting from RTW to M2TW. Hence it can be expected that the initial material is all from the RTW team's original Chinese version, work would also not have started if I had not received the team's permission.

Even though they poured those thousands of hours of work into their mod, I'm not saying it's correct for them to just take your stuff without even asking. But what I'm trying to say is something like this should be sorted out in the first place when your team asked for their permission, you don't give nothing or something so little in return, instead you help out in other possible ways you can to return the favour. This is how it works in all my years in the modding scene, since we're all just a bunch of people banding together to create the games we want.

The problem here is arising from the understanding that we had dealing with the creators of the original RTW mod: we got their permission to use all their work under the single condition that we give credit to the RTW team (a list was provided on request, see intro of our mod) and use of their team symbol\insignia in our splash screen.
Seeing that there were some problems in their RTW script and some map stuff I offered my help with their current work (different team) which was readily accepted, the credit given was a nice gesture . No request was ever made from their side to use any of our work for their latest project nor was it ever mentioned in our talks about the RTW version. On the other side a further request from us to use the additional huge city battle model from the current version was not granted (something that we can live with and that we understand) which did not stop the new team to use our translation work without asking and then crediting it to the wrong people.
In the light of this (the export_vnvs file alone has over 20.000 lines of text that were all painstakingly translated by Seether) being upset about it is rather understandable. While copying has to be regarded as the greatest form of flattery (if I could do it better I would it myself - isn't it?) doing it without giving the due credit is simply a matter of disrespect and upsetting.
None of my private work and other contributions here (and on other sites) have ever been restricted in it's use - all I am (and modders in general) asking for is for the due credit to be given to them. What 'return' do we get for our work other then that? If that is taken away then why continue? And that's the reason why unpermitted\uncredited use of modders work is that fiercely contested.