Shields Raised Boys!!!!

[Sun Jetzu]

Hey guys, I'm watching Troy right now. Yes the movie starring brad pitt as Achilles.
Now in the movie when they land on the beach they assume a shield wall/testudo. They move around like a giant turtle with spears shooting out of its back.
Now I watch this and think. Could Greeks perform a testudo like shield wall in Rome 2 based on historical fact?
Another movie, 300. They perform turtle testudo right at the end when theyre surrounded.
I know these are hollywood movies that arnt the best historical representation of the period. And imagine how cool it would be if maybe some spear/shield units in rome 2 could perform some type of testudo.
If they could, that will give added bonus's to spear/shield units in the game. And make it so Rome wouldnt be the only faction to be able to perform testudo.
Like I said this is all my speculation, and I'm not positive if this is historically accurate. But it would effin cool

[Sharpe]

Love that scene. Dem Brad Pitt delts.

To be honest I don't think they should be able - while physically possible I don't think it would be practical. Jack of all trades, eh?

[Sun Jetzu]

Love that scene. Dem Brad Pitt delts.

To be honest I don't think they should be able - while physically possible I don't think it would be practical. Jack of all trades, eh?

It really would be that hard to do, and if I can have some of my units form a shield wall, I can maneuver troops around them. It be like forming squares in Emp/Nap except instead of repelling cavalry, it repel Archers and projectiles.

[PROMETHEUS ts]

I would rather them to focus on fixing the testudo they have showed rather than implementing for other factions .... I have not yet seen a properly made testudo by the screens showed ... and its strange couse that such an iconic formation that people will be just extremely disapointed to not see the "RIGHT" Testudo formation .

[Sun Jetzu]

I would rather them to focus on fixing the testudo they have showed rather than implementing for other factions .... I have not yet seen a properly made testudo by the screens showed ... and its strange couse that such an iconic formation that people will be just extremely disapointed to not see the "RIGHT" Testudo formation .

Whats the proper testudo formation?

[Caledoni]

not quite the same but im sure in the carthage seige video the roman soldiers are holding up their shields while running towards the breech

[xjlxking]

That scene is unrealistic. At suck close range, those arrows should have penetrated the shield. Not to mention, even if it didn't, Greeks Military didn't use this tactic. This is obviously done with smaller group

[xjlxking]

That scene is impossible
-The arrows would have penetrated the shields at such close range
-The archers apparently have their feet molded into the group, only attacking shields

That tactic is not a testudo. Greeks didn't do it because a strong shield charge knocks them all down

[BunnyPoopCereal]

That scene is impossible
-The arrows would have penetrated the shields at such close range
-The archers apparently have their feet molded into the group, only attacking shields

That tactic is not a testudo. Greeks didn't do it because a strong shield charge knocks them all down

It may have penetrated most shields but some arrows would be stuck in the shield. If you asked any living human being they would take their chances with the shield than without in such a circumstance. Unless they are suicidal or against their warrior code/custom.

[Yayattasa]

It may have penetrated most shields but some arrows would be stuck in the shield. If you asked any living human being they would take their chances with the shield than without in such a circumstance. Unless they are suicidal or against their warrior code/custom.

The time spent on arranging the formation could have served to charge the damn archers haha

[Sun Jetzu]

That scene is impossible
-The arrows would have penetrated the shields at such close range
-The archers apparently have their feet molded into the group, only attacking shields

That tactic is not a testudo. Greeks didn't do it because a strong shield charge knocks them all down

I doubt its impossible, and to me sounds like a plausable military tactics for civilizations that used spear and shield infantry.

[Kissaki]

Any shield bearer - whether Roman, Greek, Gaul or whatever - would naturally and instinctively raise his shield to protect himself from incoming missiles. He'd be stupid not to. Whether this should be done testudo-like or not is another matter, but if a unit was brave enough to advance through constant rain of stones or arrows, everyone in that unit would use his shield as pretty much an umbrella against those missiles.

[stevehoos]

Threads like this are great, you can tell the people who accumulate their knowledge of history through movies by the level of their enthusiasm.

[Sun Jetzu]

Threads like this are great, you can tell the people who accumulate their knowledge of history through movies by the level of their enthusiasm.

thank you I appreciate the compliment :p

[DogSoldierSPQR]

I am fascinated by the thought of this but not sure really.
In a way, I don't think Hoplites will need this formation because their Hoplons are massive and since every soldier raises his shield to defend against missile attacks, I think Hoplites and Greek forces in general are going to be very effective against deflecting missiles, especially when idle.

I don't actually think there was any group formation with the Greeks that defended against arrow fire. I think it was just each soldier protected himself with his own shield. So realistically, I don't think it should be in the game if we were to go along "historical" lines.

However ( I love "Howevers" ), this would be one of those features which would be amazing, very useful, very effective and it would also make this Greek units who were to adopt this pretty much invincible to arrow fire. I personally would love this feature. So yeah, I would've liked it if it were in

[panzerschreck]

Really, nothing historical comes from this bad movie: all the story from Homere has been changed (agamemnon dies, Paris survives etc), the siege is stupid: 10 years of siege seems to be 1 month and when the troyans soldiers fight, they fight with big doors as shields, just out their walls!

You can search on google all the historical errors and changes of this really, really bad and unrealistic movie.

I prefer that people look to 300: only a fool can believe that the movie 300 is historical. Troy is more insidious, if you don't know history you can believe it tells the books of Homere, in reality, all is wrong and has been changed.

The film is bad in its story but also in the scene of fights, totally hollywoodish and unrealistic in terms of tactics, weapons, historicity.

[geala]

We don't know anything about hoplite "testudos" (I don't know the correct Greek term and am to lazy to search). Because such things are not mentioned in the sources and not depicted in art. Shields were surely raised to deal with arrows, but more is a speculation. It would have been extremely difficult to move such a formation and retain unit coherence. It would have needed much training and discipline and we hear of Roman testudos first in the 1st c. BC, when there was a sort of professional army. In Greek just the professional epilektoi hoplites might theoretically have been able to train such a Formation. Physically it is easier to form such a formation with oval or rectangular shield. It might be possible with aspides (the hoplite shield; I own one and try to imagine how it would work) but there might be many spots left uncovered. BTW an arrow would not penetrate an aspis or scutum even at close quarter in such a way that it would travel further. It would penetrate and stick in it, projecting a few cm/inches, if it did not hid the metall parts and were deflected or broken. Aspides and even more so the laminated scuta were usually formidable constructions offering superb protection.

[Sun Jetzu]

It would have been extremely difficult to move such a formation and retain unit coherence. It would have needed much training and discipline and we hear of Roman testudos first in the 1st c. BC, when there was a sort of professional army.

I feel this formation would be more to defend against constant arrows/projectiles.
so if it moved or maneuvered, then it would do it rather slow like a turtle.
I know a soldiers instinct is raising his shield to parry projectiles. But what I'm talking about is a highly trained unit or elite unit that could make this formation. I Can think of alot of ways to use this ability to good use, mostly to hold/threaten a certain position.

[The Forgotten]

Really, nothing historical comes from this bad movie: all the story from Homere has been changed (agamemnon dies, Paris survives etc), the siege is stupid: 10 years of siege seems to be 1 month and when the troyans soldiers fight, they fight with big doors as shields, just out their walls!

You can search on google all the historical errors and changes of this really, really bad and unrealistic movie.

I prefer that people look to 300: only a fool can believe that the movie 300 is historical. Troy is more insidious, if you don't know history you can believe it tells the books of Homere, in reality, all is wrong and has been changed.

The film is bad in its story but also in the scene of fights, totally hollywoodish and unrealistic in terms of tactics, weapons, historicity.

You can't honestly follow Homer's exact story and stay historical at the same time. Please tell me what history book says a sea serpent from the Gods came out of the water and slew Laocoön when he was warning the Trojans about the danger of the Horse. While fight scenes might have been unrealistic, but it fits along the lines of the Aristeia's, which are unrealistic in terms of tactics, weapons, historicity.

You can't have something be historical and follow a work of fiction. They are almost literal opposites. The movie is honestly neither. It is Hollywood. But as we all know Hollywood will take your favorite book/epic poem, and chuck it out the window. That is why you do not expect them to be correct. You simply enjoy it as something completely different or else you will have a bad time.

[DogSoldierSPQR]

Really, nothing historical comes from this bad movie: all the story from Homere has been changed (agamemnon dies, Paris survives etc), the siege is stupid: 10 years of siege seems to be 1 month and when the troyans soldiers fight, they fight with big doors as shields, just out their walls!

You can search on google all the historical errors and changes of this really, really bad and unrealistic movie.

I prefer that people look to 300: only a fool can believe that the movie 300 is historical. Troy is more insidious, if you don't know history you can believe it tells the books of Homere, in reality, all is wrong and has been changed.

The film is bad in its story but also in the scene of fights, totally hollywoodish and unrealistic in terms of tactics, weapons, historicity.

LOL It wasn't meant to be historical...
Wolfy saw a potential story for a movie in the legend of Troy so he re-made it completely to how he would have liked it to have turned out.