JUDEA - The Case for Inclusion

[PSYCHO V]

The Case for Inclusion



Maccabean Revolt and Judean State (167 - 63 BC)

The fact that the Judeans managed to successfully fight and win their independence / homeland back from the rule of a huge foreign empire is a significant historical event that deserves to be included in any game that depicts the events of the period whilst claiming some semblance of historical meta-narrative / theme.

ADDED GAMEPLAY: With the addition of this potential wild card at the very junction of two major empires, players could be afforded all sorts of additional gameplay options.

Brief History Video

Emergent Non-Playable Faction

To facilitate the potential emergence of Judea, CA need only incorporate some new macro-events / political decisions like those in Shogun II. All that is needed is an increase in unrest through some of these new events / decisions during the 2nd Century BC. The player then is presented with a choice of actions that will either help ease tensions or exasperate them. Eg. some thematic choices could include:

1. The High Priest's brother has stolen the Holy Vessels, do you bring him to justice? (Actual event)
2. Citizens have assaulted a butcher selling pork in the city markets, what is your response?
3. Will you choose to elect your own High Priest?
4. Will you choose to ban cultural practices?
5. Will you choose to ban religious practices?

etc etc.

If you the player happen to control the region when the above events happen, either you'll:

• Play your cards right and you succeed in either socially engineering the region and bend it to your will, or have the choice to offer them limited autonomy (vassalage) or full autonomy (alliance).
• Play your cards wrong and you have a war of liberation / Independence on your hands, which if successful / captures territory, becomes the state of Judea

To have Judea so depicted would offer the player a whole string of new gameplay options to consider, a potential new faction to deal with and the addition of interest to an otherwise monochromatic region.
Further, a hitherto ignored piece of history would now be depicted.

Late Judean Heavy Cavalry

Some of the prominent battles of the Jewish War of Independance:

• Battle of Wadi Haramia (167 BC)
• Battle of Beth Horon (166 BC)
• Battle of Emmaus (166 BC)
• Battle of Beth Zur (164 BC)
• Siege of Dathema (163 BC)
• Battle of Beth Zechariah (162 BC)
• Battle of Adasa (161 BC)
• Battle of Elasa (160 BC)

Leaders

[Update: 20130714] Unfortunately it appears Judea / Judeans will not be included.

It appears that Judea will not be afforded its own territory but rather be included as part of Arabic Nabatea and full of Arabian mercenaries and Bedouin Camel Herders. As such, it is expected that this period of history will not be depicted.

..but what would you like?

War with Rome Video

Click here for Historical discussion
Click here for the Case for Jerusalem as capital

my2bob

[ShadowMassa]

I like the idea but as an emergent faction and perhaps it's own province with 2-3 regions, if that's possible. The faction should emerge through revolt from the province if the happiness level is in a poor state. All up to CA...

[Toho]

I like the idea but as an emergent faction and perhaps it's own province with 2-3 regions, if that's possible. The faction should emerge through revolt from the province if the happiness level is in a poor state. All up to CA...

I still dont understand why such a rebellion is such a big deal, lets forget the modern day politics for a moment ask why the jews are more important than some other rebellions or events?

[Akrotatos]

I still dont understand why such a rebellion is such a big deal, lets forget the modern day politics for a moment ask why the jews are more important than some other rebellions or events?

They were not. The only important (in global scale) Jewish rebellion was outside our time frame and was important only because the Romans completely destroyed them and started the Jewish diaspora (which influenced European history).

[Argon Viper]

They were not. The only important (in global scale) Jewish rebellion was outside our time frame and was important only because the Romans completely destroyed them and started the Jewish diaspora (which influenced European history).

What he said. As a Jew, I think it would be ridiculous to have Judea as anything more than a minor, emergent faction. I'd rather have them spend their time and energy creating unique, interesting units for the playable and starting factions than spend a lot of time and energy on a faction that may not even show up depending on how you play the game.

In the meantime, can we please stop seeing an "I want to see Judea" thread once or twice every week? It's getting a bit old and if it hasn't gone anywhere yet, it's not likely to.

[PSYCHO V]

I still dont understand why such a rebellion is such a big deal, lets forget the modern day politics for a moment ask why the jews are more important than some other rebellions or events?

Against Seleucids: The Judeans succeeded to wrest independance from the Seleucid Empire whilst that empire was at its height of power, a significant feat that lead to instability throughout the remaining realm.
Against Rome: It was one of the largest rebellions in the history of the Roman Empire.

my2bob

[ShadowMassa]

BTW.. Emerge but not as a playable faction... My take is it makes sense and is accurate if it occurs through the low happiness and revolt procedure ..

[Revan The Great]

I really want the Jews in. They were a hundred times more important to the time period than the Nabateans, who appear to be what's mostly represented in that region if you go by mercenaries, plus the fact that Petra is the capitol of the Province and not Jerusalem (ridiculous).

[ShadowMassa]

BTW.. As a non playable faction, but a emergent one. The faction will come into existence once they revolt due to poor happiness. It makes sense and it's historical, I can't see why not. It's all up to you CA..

[Jugurta]

It could be modded or added later with a patch, mixing Judea with the Nabataean kingdom is historically inaccurate that's for sure.

[daelin4]

The amount of crusading for this faction- by one person at that- is almost as bad as all those nationalist rants out there.

[PSYCHO V]

The amount of crusading for this faction- by one person at that- is almost as bad as all those nationalist rants out there.

lol ..Hi daelin4, I bet the lack of moderating power / censureship here must be frustrating you no end?

.. Try searching the forum before trolling

[daelin4]

I didn't say I disagree with the inclusion.

[PSYCHO V]

I didn't say I disagree with the inclusion.

I didn't infer you did

[Jugurta]

I'd like to think that this is more about historical accuracy than about nationalistic pride, Judea did play an important role at that era and their resistance against two mighty empires was truly epic.

[Arrow2daknee]

No, I don't like it, this is a game where you make your own history, I remember your OMG NO JUDEA Thread and I know you are very mad, but it is not that big of a deal.

[daelin4]

If Judea is a faction in the game, then it's in the game, and we should be grateful it is in whatever form. And while that might not be confirmed now, we don't know if it will make it in the release version. And in that case we can still expect a DLC. Making thread after thread isn't going to help, in fact I find it quite tiresome with the ad nauseam arguments going in circles.

If it's not in the game ever, then the worst case is we all learn a bit of history, which is more important than whether they make it into some video game, let alone accurately to the desires of a few people.

Instead of arguing for their inclusion just offer some contributive, constructive ideas that would make practical sense. Se far what I've seen are "they deserve it", "look at these family trees" and "incoming moantastic no separate Judea region thread" that don't really advance the argument at all. Jews were great, we get it, now how the bloody hell would they even look or work in a game like Rome2?

[Murfmurf]

I'd like some Jewish mercs (I think they'll be reperesented in the Seleucid roster too), but I'm not that bothered about them as a faction.

[PSYCHO V]

I'd like some Jewish mercs (I think they'll be reperesented in the Seleucid roster too), but I'm not that bothered about them as a faction.

That would be some consolation at least.

..In the meantime, can we please stop seeing an "I want to see Judea" thread once or twice every week? It's getting a bit old and if it hasn't gone anywhere yet, it's not likely to.

I confess I did post a similar thread back in 2012. According to daelin4, I’m the only one interested .. so we’re averaging 1-2 threads per annum. How many have we on Sparta, Seleucids, etc etc ad naseum?

What he said. As a Jew....

Jews were great, we get it..

Guys I'm sorry, I really don't care whether your pro / anti Jew, I'm just asking that a little courtesy be extended to those that may differ with you and believe the aforementioned history to be interesting and of benefit to the gameplay of RTWII.

Instead of arguing for their inclusion just offer some contributive, constructive ideas that would make practical sense.

my2bob

[DogSoldierSPQR]

my2bob

Surely you must've ran out of bobs by now