Nova Carthago and the Barcid Dynasty

[Arcani 4 Ever]

We all saw the latest Campaign video. And we all noticed that just when they were going to click the Barcid Dynasty the camera didn't show you their introduction or bonuses.

I think Nova Carthago is the territory held by the Barcid Dynasty at the start of the game. That makes them an entirely different faction in their own right.

Not only it is somewhat historical accurate *Hamilcar did found Carthago Nova and his sons spent more of their life time in Spain than in Africa.* But it gives you a very interesting Carthaginian campaign.

Unlike Rome, Carthage already starts both territorial and politically divided.

[Revan The Great]

I don't think that's how it works. You pick a specific family, and you'll be placed in control of the 'Carthage' faction, and Libue/Nova Carthago are just your vassals.

Though it is interesting that you mention this...there are three Carthaginian factions - Nova Carthago, Carthage, and Libue, and it would make sense for the Barcids, Magonids, and Hannonids to be in control of those areas respectively, as it represents their historical interests. Still, I really don't think that's how it'll work - playing as Libue would really suck I think, and Nova Carthago wouldn't be much better. Without the income or navy from the city of Carthage, being a 'Carthaginian' faction seems like a lot of work with few upsides.

[Arcani 4 Ever]

I don't think that's how it works. You pick a specific family, and you'll be placed in control of the 'Carthage' faction, and Libue/Nova Carthago are just your vassals.

Though it is interesting that you mention this...there are three Carthaginian factions - Nova Carthago, Carthage, and Libue, and it would make sense for the Barcids, Magonids, and Hannonids to be in control of those areas respectively, as it represents their historical interests. Still, I really don't think that's how it'll work - playing as Libue would really suck I think, and Nova Carthago wouldn't be much better. Without the income or navy from the city of Carthage, being a 'Carthaginian' faction seems like a lot of work with few upsides.

Which is why i think starting civil war will make things easier.

In the let's play video, we saw that Carthage is at war with Nova Carthago. And that Libue is expanding on their own towards Egypt *Client states can expand! This is new!*. Also the video shows us gameplay on 242 B.C. this is likely a what if scenario if Carthage won the Punic Wars *just like the campaign map they showed us for the Battle of the Nile*. The Etruscan League rules Rome and Italia, and now after a war against a foreign power. Carthage can finally focus on getting rid off their political enemies *in this case Libue, ruled by the Magonids and Nova Carthago ruled by the Barcids.*

[Revan The Great]

It's a very interesting theory. Maybe even a great idea for a submod.

That said, I can't imagine them doing this. Overwhelmingly, people want to play Carthage to be the actual Carthage. Which family you choose to play becomes almost pre-determined when one family controls the big city and the rest have underdeveloped, poor provinces. In the Original Rome they did something like this, of course, but they gave the city of Rome itself to a fourth faction, the Senate. I have a feeling that they would have done the same here if the individual families were to be treated as separate but allied nations.

Plus, we know that Rome is undivided. And from everything we know, Rome and Carthage are supposed to function quite similarly in terms of gameplay/political mechanics, so I think this strengthens the argument that picking a certain family doesn't force you to be a vassal of the 'real' Carthage. Frankly I also just don't see Libue being very fun. You inhabit what's likely the poorest part of the Empire, and can only safely expand into even poorer lands (i.e. Deserts), and eventually you get hemmed in by two powerful empires - Carthage on one side, Ptolemaic Egypt on the other.

Lastly, I think if Carthage's family selection was going to work this way, they would've told us about it by now and billed it as an interesting feature. That way they could claim '14 Playable Factions' instead of just 12.

[Arcani 4 Ever]

It's a very interesting theory. Maybe even a great idea for a submod.

That said, I can't imagine them doing this. Overwhelmingly, people want to play Carthage to be the actual Carthage. Which family you choose to play becomes almost pre-determined when one family controls the big city and the rest have underdeveloped, poor provinces. In the Original Rome they did something like this, of course, but they gave the city of Rome itself to a fourth faction, the Senate. I have a feeling that they would have done the same here if the individual families were to be treated as separate but allied nations.

Plus, we know that Rome is undivided. And from everything we know, Rome and Carthage are supposed to function quite similarly in terms of gameplay/political mechanics, so I think this strengthens the argument that picking a certain family doesn't force you to be a vassal of the 'real' Carthage. Frankly I also just don't see Libue being very fun. You inhabit what's likely the poorest part of the Empire, and can only safely expand into even poorer lands (i.e. Deserts), and eventually you get hemmed in by two powerful empires - Carthage on one side, Ptolemaic Egypt on the other.

Lastly, I think if Carthage's family selection was going to work this way, they would've told us about it by now and billed it as an interesting feature. That way they could claim '14 Playable Factions' instead of just 12.

CA hasn't really talked about anything but Rome during all this time, so it is no surprise to me that we know nothing about the other factions as much as Rome. CA has just talked about the Legionary system, which all factions will have, but Rome will benefit the most out of it. The diplomacy, which is pretty much the same for everyone. And the 3 families, but in that video they didn't say anything about Carthage, despite Carthage also having 3 families.

During that time period actually Lybia was one of the most rich parts of North Africa. It wasn't as desertified as it is now, and even lions and elephants lived there. Also Libue Carthage had 2 important settlements that will appear on Rome II and that were almost on the same level of prestige as Carthago. Leptis Magna and Thapsus. And they both are governed by Libue.

They have just started talking about other faction until last week, and i still believe that the fact they didn't show us the Barcid Dynasty will means at least one family on the Carthage faction will have different starting area.

Also the Magonids Dynasty intro hints about Libue.

[Revan The Great]

Hm.

Well, +rep for creative thinking. I admit you've gotten me intrigued and part of me is kind of hoping this will be how it works, just for how unique it is.

[[N2]Kami]

Leptis Magna and Thapsus in Rome 1 seem pretty poor to me.

[daelin4]

I think Nova Carthago is the territory held by the Barcid Dynasty at the start of the game. That makes them an entirely different faction in their own right.

Not only it is somewhat historical accurate *Hamilcar did found Carthago Nova and his sons spent more of their life time in Spain than in Africa.* But it gives you a very interesting Carthaginian campaign.

Unlike Rome, Carthage already starts both territorial and politically divided.

If you meant historically then you are correct. In-game? Well CA has a way with making games the way they want them, even if that means having quite some liberty with the historical context.

After the first Punic war Hamilcar sort of went rogue and moved to Spain, where he raised a large army and began consolidating his hold among the Iberian tribes. The silver mines were hugely profitable and easily paid for the mercenary army he raised. Since the dominant political faction back at Carthage was under the Magonids, the tension between "state" an this general was similar to that of Julius Caesar after refusing to surrender the control of his army to the Roman senate.
Part of this tension also factored into the general foreign policy of Carthage- the Magonids favoured co-existence with Rome and expanding in places like North Africa, detractors would describe this as the "appeasement" strategy in the face of a powerful rival. Hamilcar however preferred a much more confrontational approach, seeking an opportunity to resume hostilities with the Romans over lost territory and, of course, the long-term threat they posed.

The situation is indeed quite similar in the way the preamble to Julius Caesar's civil war against Pompey played out; Carthage had it's pro-Hamilcar/ Hannibal supporters (known as the pro-Barcids faction, which is probably what CA want's the player to represent in part of controlling Hannibal in Carthago Nova) and the Magonid-controlled Carthaginian senate, headed by Mago.

Anyways suffice to say, the historically accurate method of portraying Hannibal would be to play as Carthago Nova.