Setting fire to the environment?

[SinerAthin]

So there is one thing that I've always wanted to do in Total War games, and that would be causing large fires on the battlefield.

Especially on dry maps, I'd love the ability to start forest or grass fires if there's tall grass or trees on the map, and the weather is dry.


Imagine how awesome it would be to flush out ambush or flanking units that way by setting the entire forest ablaze, or have two armies clash midst burning fields with the sky above turning dark with smoke!
Does the enemy's cavalry threaten your left flank but it's covered by a grassy plain? Put it on fire!
Is the enemy camping the forest? Put the whole thing on fire!

(Just remember not to stand in the fire yourself!)

[-=PHX=-Hades]

Large fires would kill graphics cards

[SinerAthin]

Large fires would kill graphics cards

I don't think it would be that bad.

I have even had games on my old X-box that allowed me to start entire forest fires without lagging one bit. I'm fairly sure that fire would be possible as long as they were properly introduced and optimized.

[-=PHX=-Hades]

I don't think it would be that bad.

I have even had games on my old X-box that allowed me to start entire forest fires without lagging one bit. I'm fairly sure that fire would be possible as long as they were properly introduced and optimized.

Comparing an X-box and the graphics of its games to a modern day PC playing a new TW game prolly isn't a good gauge of whether or not it would lag out a game.

Was this tactic used often in ancient times? I haven't heard about it too much.

Plus can you imagine how much of a pain in the ass it would be for developers to put this in a game? You'd have to factor in SOOOO many things...wind, rain, types of trees, distance between trees, smoke. Does grass catch fire? How long does it take for a unit in a burning forest to die? Does the fire slow them down? How can you control these units when you prolly can't really see them? Does the rain put out the fire? If so how long would it take? If there's snow how does that affect the fire? How does the AI use this tactic? How does the AI counter this tactic?

That's just the things I can think of. Way too much work for something that I don't even think many people would want.

[alQamar]

Large fires would kill graphics cards

how come any suggestion topic is answered with a non based "fact", that try to kill all intentions of progress of the OP and further then a canon of self called experts starts diggin all progress down.

- would kill graphic cards
- inflation of fire walls in every third battle - not realistic at all, I can't remember a famous battle this instant in which this tactic was used
- would destroy overview
- way too many influences and dynamics to consider, more likely it would be game breaking
- would also take away much of strategic thinking an manouvering

Overall: God NO!

well it seems you missed Medieval games mate? And I am quite ashamed to mention what the Wehrmacht or at least the SS troups did in Russia.
and what about our new balls of fire

Yeah a field full of thick smoke and large moving flames would give even my 780 a good smacking and potentially crash the game. Dynamic flames would be pretty handsome though.

You will be amused how efficiently a GTX 780 is able to display thick smoke and fire with even realistic physics literally on standby since DirectX 11.

However I can understand the point of view that overusage would distract the game, but perhaps you cannot use this on every map and every weather and season we have in Rome that's a well limit.

[-=PHX=-Hades]

how come any suggestion topic is answered with a non based "fact", that try to kill all intentions of progress of the OP and further then a canon of self called experts starts diggin all progress down.

Show me the sentence where I called myself an expert. And if you have played enough video games you know that fire/smoke is one of the biggest causes of lag.

What progress? As several of us have pointed out this would only make the game worse on many levels.

[Igor85]

well it seems you missed Medieval games mate? And I am quite ashamed to mention what the Wehrmacht or at least the SS troups did in Russia.
and what about our new balls of fire

Sry, don't know what you mean by "medieval games". And scorched earth tactis like in russia aren't comparable to tactics like setting fire on the battlefield to burn the enemy army.

[torongill]

well it seems you missed Medieval games mate? And I am quite ashamed to mention what the Wehrmacht or at least the SS troups did in Russia.
and what about our new balls of fire



You will be amused how efficiently a GTX 780 is able to display thick smoke and fire with even realistic physics literally on standby since DirectX 11.

However I can understand the point of view that overusage would distract the game, but perhaps you cannot use this on every map and every weather and season we have in Rome that's a well limit.

"Scorched Earth" is not the same as "burnt battlefield". That's First.

Second, it may come as a surprise to you, but the majority of players playing Total War don't have the most powerful of the latest generation of Graphic cards.
Third, ask the average player what he'd like more, burning fields with lots of smoke and fire, or be able to run battles with two thousand more soldiers and I guarantee you the majority would say "keep your fancy fires and gimme moar men!"

Fourth, fire is a fickle beast that only the stupid and the very very brave(the line is often blurred) would use. Plus, you would need special pre-battle calculations to ensure that you would be able to light a fire. Wet grass and wet wood are remarkably fire-resistant, you know. A driving rain makes for a splendid natural fire-extinguisher.
A wind that changes its direction and starts blowing in your face will make starting a massive fire such a self-defeating gesture that no player who has experienced that embarrassment will ever think about using such tactics.

[Semper_Fidelis]

You will be amused how efficiently a GTX 780 is able to display thick smoke and fire with even realistic physics literally on standby since DirectX 11.

However I can understand the point of view that overusage would distract the game, but perhaps you cannot use this on every map and every weather and season we have in Rome that's a well limit.

Yeah I know the GTX 780 is a super sexy beast but I remember in Empire Darthmod with my other grapics card, I can't remember the name of the card but it could run Shogun 2 on ultra no problem. Anyway I remember in Empire Darthmod with the smoke effects turned all the way up and then 5000 men shooting and all the smoke made the game lag quite a lot. So if there is dynamic spreading flames or something and the whole field is on fire, I can almost guarantee you that there will be some form of lag. I don't think CA would impliment a feature that makes the game lag every time it is in use.

[krisslanza]

I think it hasn't come up usually in Total War because, I don't think fire tactics were quite that prevalent in most of the games featured so far? Not on purpose anyway. The only war that jumps to mind immediately that LOVED fire attacks was the Three Kingdoms down in China though. Fire tactics were used to devastating effect.

[Semper_Fidelis]

Yeah a field full of thick smoke and large moving flames would give even my 780 a good smacking and potentially crash the game. Dynamic flames would be pretty handsome though.

[DogSoldierSPQR]

If we move away from optimisation and look at the whole idea of being able to cause these fires, I'd say that this feature could be very tactical indeed. However, TW battles would never be the same again if we had this implemented. There are trade-offs when going in this direction. When it comes to ambushing units, it would kill their effectiveness since a paranoid individual like myself would just burn forests regardless haha

[RandyRhoads]

A small fire would be cool if you raid a farm site on the campaing map.

[Adreno]

its already confirmed that it wont be present, either because it would make stuff too easy, is too distractive and hurts performance

[Clock]

its already confirmed that it wont be present, either because it would make stuff too easy, is too distractive and hurts performance

Yeah, it was a while back they mentioned it. First of all there's the technical issues of implementing such a feature, then performance issues, and finally how it would impact on the gameplay. Maybe something for the future to consider. I'd certainly like more destructive/interactive environments for the Battle maps.

[TotalWarker]

As others have said above, it's use in every battle would take away from maneuvering, army structure and tactics.

However, as a 'deployable' it might be interesting. For example, a pit or area of fuel laid before the battle, to be ignited via fire arrows once a unit wanders in? Would certainly add another dimension to defense for armies in that stance or field battle sieges

[Mbern45]

How upset would players be once the wind shifted and the fire threatened their own troops? lol. To make it realistic would be to make it dangerous to both sides and at that point it becomes pointless since it becomes an unpredictable element.

Personally if my opponent started a fire I would camp until it burned itself out before engaging in battle. I don't need to be on the verge of a victory only to have my men break because the fire got too close.

Also, when you cause a fire in a siege battle in Shogun 2 it causes very dark smoke, unless they toned it way down nobody would be able to see anything on the battlefield.

[Igor85]

- would kill graphic cards
- inflation of fire walls in every third battle - not realistic at all, I can't remember a famous battle this instant in which this tactic was used
- would destroy overview
- way too many influences and dynamics to consider, more likely it would be game breaking
- would also take away much of strategic thinking an manouvering

Overall: God NO!

[-=PHX=-Hades]

- would also take away much of strategic thinking an manouvering

Exactly. I mean imagine if you are attacked by a vastly superior force on a map that is basically all woods, what would you do? Set fire to the entire map and try to kill off both armies of course. How lame would that make the game?

[Shek93]

IMO not all the battlefield should be able to be burn, but like in the previous, RTW, in city sieges when catapults shoot fireballs to the buildings they were set on fire and destroyed, maybe that thing could be also implemented (or must be) in rome 2, i think it could be cool.