Biological advantage to being white?

[Hazzard]

Me and some friends had some musings on colour today. It eventually came down to how in most documentaries we've seen portraying ancient man the people are always black. This made me wonder, why would people evolve to become white? The only reason I could think of would be that white skinned people have some sort of advantage in certain environments that dark skinned people don't. But we couldn't come up with any. On asking other people what they thought the only answers I got were "People were racist to non-whites" which is not a biological advantage, so it wouldn't have likely mattered in Antiquity.

[Larkin]

The you talking about? People didn't evolve to become white. People were white in Europe, Europe advanced technologically, became dominant.

[Himster]

A low melanin count in skin allows for a higher rate of vitamin D (required for the absorption of calcium) intake from the sun. In places where sunlight is rare this is a helpful trait, everywhere else it's disadvantageous as more ultra-violet radiation penetrates the skin: lighter skin gene variation strains would not have lasted long in such conditions without the aid of technology anyway.

[Spartacus041]

There are a couple of biological advantages to being white:

- High tolerance of bland foods
- Charming smile and excellent hair texture
- Fully take advantage of all-inclusive resorts
- Capable of engaging in small talk for hours
- Ability to enjoy Nickelback
- Appreciation of the comedy of Dane Cook
- Stopped less by the po-lice
- Easily obtain employment

Just a few I can think of, please feel free to add more.

[Arbitrary Crusader]

There are a couple of biological advantages to being white:
- Ability to enjoy Nickelback
- Appreciation of the comedy of Dane Cook

I wouldn't call those "advantages"

[Spartacus041]

I wouldn't call those "advantages"

It is a strength. It's about being able to endure adverse situations... adverse situations like a Dane Cook show or a Nickelback concert.

[Arbitrary Crusader]

It is a strength. It's about being able to endure adverse situations... adverse situations like a Dane Cook show or a Nickelback concert.

If you would had put, " Being able to NOT hear Nickle back and Cook, or the ability to never being around those two." I would agree.

BUT NO

[NotYetRegistered]

It has nothing to do with biological advantages, just with the amount of UV radiation people absorb.

[sumskilz]

A low melanin count in skin allows for a higher rate of vitamin D (required for the absorption of calcium) intake from the sun. In places where sunlight is rare this is a helpful trait, everywhere else it's disadvantageous as more ultra-violet radiation penetrates the skin: lighter skin gene variation strains would not have lasted long in such conditions without the aid of technology anyway.

Mostly this if we're talking about skin color only, but there are other European adaptations.

It has nothing to do with biological advantages, just with the amount of UV radiation people absorb.

Which is a biological advantage in particular environments.

the females tend to be naturally more fairer than their male counterpart - possibly a result of sexual selection

Sexual selection is not distinct from other forms of natural selection. Females are fairer skinned than males in any given population because they require more vitamin D for pregnancy. Thus fairer skin is more likely to be attractive.

[Phier]

Sexual selection is not distinct from other forms of natural selection.

Actually I have to disagree. For example, large breasts are a sexual selection in our females but there is no need for them. Steatopygia is another trait (and bait for stereotyping) that seems to be purely sexually selected.

So sexual selection is "natural" and could be called just part of natural selection, its also different, and more powerful. Its obvious from other species examples that sexual selection can easily "overpower" selection based solely on "good genes" for survival.

[sumskilz]

Actually I have to disagree. For example, large breasts are a sexual selection in our females but there is no need for them. Steatopygia is another trait (and bait for stereotyping) that seems to be purely sexually selected.

So sexual selection is "natural" and could be called just part of natural selection, its also different, and more powerful. Its obvious from other species examples that sexual selection can easily "overpower" selection based solely on "good genes" for survival.

Ah yeah, you’re right. I probably should have said something like “not completely distinct”. For a moment I was thinking having some extra fat devoted to mounds and curves is sort of related to survival because of the fat needed for pregnancy but then I realized it’s just a more drastic way to signal fertility which is playing into the sexual selection trend. But now you've got me thinking about all the possibilities for sexual selection for various typically European traits, I know some genes which affect skin color also effect hair and eye color, but others affect hair or eye color independently of skin color.

[RubiconDecision]

Sexual selection is not distinct from other forms of natural selection. Females are fairer skinned than males in any given population because they require more vitamin D for pregnancy. Thus fairer skin is more likely to be attractive.

A subjective assertion about aesthetics and not a conclusion that follows based upon evidence. In fact there have been cases where those who possess albinism as a trait have been persecuted as well as made to feel ugly and also ostracized.

[sumskilz]

A subjective assertion about aesthetics and not a conclusion that follows based upon evidence. In fact there have been cases where those who possess albinism as a trait have been persecuted as well as made to feel ugly and also ostracized.

Uh, there is plenty of evidence for for it as a general preference, but I think you misunderstand. It's not about lighter skin being perceived as more attractive without caveat, it's that lighter skin is feminine and thus is a factor in the attractiveness of females. That's simply sexual dimorphism, females are lighter skinned than males in any given population. Albinism is not a trait that would be perceived as attractive based on biological benefit in any environment. You might point out that many men are attracted to women who are darker than themselves, well there are many factors that play a role, but attraction to novelty and the "exotic" also have a biological basis.

[RubiconDecision]

Uh, there is plenty of evidence for for it as a general preference, but I think you misunderstand. It's not about lighter skin being perceived as more attractive without caveat, it's that lighter skin is feminine and thus is a factor in the attractiveness of females. That's simply sexual dimorphism, females are lighter skinned than males in any given population. Albinism is not a trait that would be perceived as attractive based on biological benefit in any environment. You might point out that many men are attracted to women who are darker than themselves, well there are many factors that play a role, but attraction to novelty and the "exotic" also have a biological basis.

Source? I'm not buying it.

[Spartacus041]

In all seriousness, we often attribute things like white pigmentation to natural selection when a lot of it is also due to sexual selection. Sure, the origin of white skin are probably a result of environmental factors. However, the propagation of these genes are not necessarily cause by evolution. Fair skin is prized and considered attractive in a majority of world cultures. This tendency to seek fairer skinned mates probably plays a big part in propagating these genes. This may also explain why that in any non-african race, the females tend to be naturally more fairer than their male counterpart - possibly a result of sexual selection and breeding fair skinned traits into the ethnicity. Of course there are other factors like males doing more sun-exposed field work. But in any case, I'm sure there are smarter gentlemen here who can educate us on the role sexual selection has played in the the propagation of whiteness and fair skin, not just in Europe, but across the world.

[Condottiere 40K]

Socially, yes. A colleague told me this story how Jamaican girls approached white guys in order to get impregnated, so that their kid will have a greater opportunity for employment in higher end jobs.

[Ludicus]

white skinned people have some sort of advantage in certain environments that dark skinned people don't

Indeed.Dark-skinned people who move to cloudy climes can develop conditions such as rickets from vitamin D deficiencies.The weaker the ultraviolet light, the fairer the skin. People in the tropics have developed dark skin to block out the sun and protect their body's folate reserves. People far from the equator have developed fair skin to drink in the sun and produce adequate amounts of vitamin D during the long winter months:





Jablonski and Chaplin predicted the skin colors of indigenous people across the globe based on how much ultraviolet light different areas receive. Graphic by Matt Zang, adapted from the data of N. Jablonski and G. Chaplin.

Source:The evolution of race was as simple as the politics of race is complex, Gina Kirchweger

[Slaytaninc]

Things to think about when talking about the evolution of "European" style features:

There is actually more correlation between skin color and polygyny rates than there is between skin color and latitude.

Northern latitudes in Asia were settled relatively recently, so there was less genetic change to drive evolution of lighter skin.

Infants and Females of all races are paler than adult Males to various degrees.

Among people of African descent, coarse hair tends to develop a bit later in life, infants and young children often have relatively silky hair.

Blondes have more scalp hair follicles than Brunettes.

Green and Hazel eyes are the result of carrying one blue eye gene and having it be expressed.

All in all, I imagine that sexual selection is the primary factor in why mutations that may have been slightly evolutionarily advantageous were selected for well in advance of what survival needs dictate. The "Runaway Effect" in other words.

[sumskilz]

Green and Hazel eyes are the result of carrying one blue eye gene and having it be expressed.

That's right, but maybe confusing for someone who doesn't already know what you mean. Two copies of the A version of SNP rs1805007 in the gene HERC2 almost always result in brown eyes. One copy of the A version and one copy of the G version can produce brown, green, or hazel eyes. The resulting color depends on other variations in the OCA2 gene, and maybe a few others. Two copies of the G version of this SNP usually results in blue eyes, but green eyes are possible too, due to other SNPs.

EDIT: Now that I’ve tried, I think it’s hard to explain without being confusing. Maybe this:

AA at SNP rs1805007 within HERC2 = 85% chance of brown eyes; 14% chance of green or hazel eyes; 1% chance of blue eyes.

AG at SNP rs1805007 within HERC2 = 6% chance of brown eyes; 37% chance of green or hazel eyes; 7% chance of blue eyes.

GG at SNP rs1805007 within HERC2 = 72% chance of blue eyes; 27% chance of green eyes; 1% chance of brown eyes.

OCA2 is the other gene that affects eye color, and whether hair color is blond verses brown. Red hair is determined by a different gene called MC1R which also effects skin pigmentation.

[knight of meh]

EDIT: Now that I’ve tried, I think it’s hard to explain without being confusing. Maybe this:

AA at SNP rs1805007 within HERC2 = 85% chance of brown eyes; 14% chance of green or hazel eyes; 1% chance of blue eyes.

AG at SNP rs1805007 within HERC2 = 6% chance of brown eyes; 37% chance of green or hazel eyes; 7% chance of blue eyes.

GG at SNP rs1805007 within HERC2 = 72% chance of blue eyes; 27% chance of green eyes; 1% chance of brown eyes.

OCA2 is the other gene that affects eye color, and whether hair color is blond verses brown. Red hair is determined by a different gene called MC1R which also effects skin pigmentation.

not helped along by you making a typo ...