Slingers seems too deadly.

[IDineInHell]

I've just started my Roman campaign and I can see that the slingers are A LOT more deadly than I would've thought. One unit of slingers can take out more than half of my principes within a couple of volleys; they also have crazy range. The sling shots also make a large sound when they hit. Does anyone else notice this and can I edit the files so that the slingers do less damage?

[Post Hoc]

Yes you can edit the file 'export_descr_unit'. look for 'stat_pri' on the left side.

An example:

stat_pri 5, 3, stone, 145, 28, missile, missile_mechanical, blunt, none, 25, 1

The first number is its attack value, second is charge, third is range, and fourth is ammo. Alternatively you could use my file that i've edited to make missiles overall less effective from the front. They will still do very lethal damage from flanks and rear. For some reason it might not be save game compatible.

[DavidtheDuke]

Yes you can edit the file 'export_descr_unit'. look for 'stat_pri' on the left side.

An example:

stat_pri 5, 3, stone, 145, 28, missile, missile_mechanical, blunt, none, 25, 1

The first number is its attack value, second is charge, third is range, and fourth is ammo. Alternatively you could use my file that I've edited to make missiles overall less effective from the front. They will still do very lethal damage from flanks and rear. For some reason it might not be save game compatible.

Can't seem to be able to find information on this otherwise: Is there a MTW2 unit editor besides using notepad that can mass-edit entire units etc? I wanna edit all the missile units for the mod using with the no-pilum edu, as I have basically figured the engine doesn't handle them well (especially the AI). Since I figure you edited that edu yourself manually, I wouldn't want to ask you to do that (or heaven even forbid MYSELF!! :p).

[Post Hoc]

Can't seem to be able to find information on this otherwise: Is there a MTW2 unit editor besides using notepad that can mass-edit entire units etc? I wanna edit all the missile units for the mod using with the no-pilum edu, as I have basically figured the engine doesn't handle them well (especially the AI). Since I figure you edited that edu yourself manually, I wouldn't want to ask you to do that (or heaven even forbid MYSELF!! :p).

EDU-matic is probably the best one to use. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...eration-system

Or you could download and open it in notepad+ which is what i did. It has a 'find and replace' feature that works very well for mass editing.

[DavidtheDuke]

EDU-matic is probably the best one to use. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...eration-system

Or you could download and open it in notepad+ which is what i did. It has a 'find and replace' feature that works very well for mass editing.

Using your edu seems to make shield wall buggy as well as the hastati and principes can't use siege equipment properly. Sorry

[airborne guy]

All Missile units are deadly, not just the slingers. When I attack a full stack I bring 3 units of Roman Archers with me and wipe out 35% of their force before I send in the infantry

@ Post Hoc, It should be save game compatible. That is weird

[Rhaymo]

i'll lowering that values (on the average by 4 points)

[WillyPete2171]

Please do something about how they sound as well. It's sounds like an artillery strike.

[Sar1n]

Could you make that optional? I kinda like having good fire support.

[alex man142]

I've been doing battles on Medium and besides the very loud slinger sound, (which is kind of annoying) I suffer little damage. As the Ptolemaic Kingdom, I have won every battle against the Saba (who took Iran and was in my way) despite their heavy use of ranged units. Just use light cavalry to kill off most of their range units.

[Yayattasa]

is the slinger sound a bug, or is it emulating the sonic boom we hear?

[Vanguard13]

I've just started my Roman campaign and I can see that the slingers are A LOT more deadly than I would've thought. One unit of slingers can take out more than half of my principes within a couple of volleys; they also have crazy range. The sling shots also make a large sound when they hit. Does anyone else notice this and can I edit the files so that the slingers do less damage?

1.) Yes, they are about twice as powerful as they should be. The attack value is between 9 and 13, depending on the faction of slinger. This is about 1/2 of the total defense value of the average unit.

2.) Yes, the range is too much like archers, and should be halved.

3.) With the sound, I have found in edu that it reads 'blunt'. I'm sure that's the impact sound, but the 'firing barage' sound I think is when they 'fire' the sling. I have to refresh my memory where the firing sound originates from.

4.) Yes the EDU can be edited to fix all the overpower and range issues, but with '3', I'm not entirely sure.

[Vanguard13]

export_descr_unit.txt

^^ For anyone not handy with EDU, here's a file for you which fixes the distance and strength issues of the slingers for all factions. It doesn't resolve the sound issue.

Simply place this in MedievalII-->mods-->DBM-->data

It will ask you if you want to replace the existing file. Click 'yes' or 'ok'.

[airborne guy]

export_descr_unit.txt

^^ For anyone not handy with EDU, here's a file for you which fixes the distance and strength issues of the slingers for all factions. It doesn't resolve the sound issue.

Simply place this in MedievalII-->mods-->DBM-->data

It will ask you if you want to replace the existing file. Click 'yes' or 'ok'.

Thanks for this, I was going to edit it myself until I saw this...Is the damage reduced for archers too or just slingers?
+rep

[Vanguard13]

Thanks for this, I was going to edit it myself until I saw this...Is the damage reduced for archers too or just slingers?
+rep

Thanks! It's just the slingers. No changes to archers.

I've read the above argument about why slingers should remain at their present power, and how they were deadlier in some respects than archers.

While I'm sure there are some pretty colorful accounts of slings in action penetrating armor, I find it more telling that the bow and arrow 'won out' over the sling in the development of weaponry: i.e why as armor strengths increased over time the bow and arrow remained relevant and the sling was practically not used in the west by the medieval period except in Spain.

The 'in game' problem with slingers is their animation practically has no arch or parabola, meaning that if they stand behind your units, they hit your own units. Deadly from the backside, not the sorts of own goals you want to be scoring.

The animations require you place them, similar to crossbows in M2, in the front lines if not on a hill behind the troops.

I could adjust the 'accuracy' of slings in the related file, enough to justify the original attack points of the weapon.

Still, I think the adjustments I made are sufficient. I halved the range since the units go 'front line' and I nearly halved the attack points. STILL i have the bullets as AP (armour piercing) which is a great bonus, and the decreased attack points now seems to more or less mimic what would be a change in 'accuracy'.

[Vanguard13]

Regarding the artillery barrage sound of the slingers: I was wrong when I thought 'blunt' was the reference, rather it is next to it - for all slingers in the EDU it clearly states that the sound will be 'none'.

This means there is either a bug or the modders have inadvertently placed the barrage sound-file (I believe the mongolian rocket launcher from the vanilla) as the reference file for 'none'.

[Sar1n]

The sound is actually naffatun, not rocket launcher.

[Vanguard13]

Yes, confirmed naffatun. But why? Have you seen the EDU? Why are we getting the nafftun sound when it reads 'none' for weapon sound?

[Macrath]

This is a tough argument. I can see ppls point in saying the slingers should be lowered in power and range, but when looking at actual RL statistics a Sling is a very deadly weapon, even when compared to a bow, so here is my argument for the slings having their current lethal dmg as opposed to bows.

The bow is generally more accurate, although a skilled slinger can have the accuracy of an archer. The sling has a longer range (generally) and more force per projectile. Both weapons cause terrific wounds, although the sling doesn't rely as much on accuracy to achieve a mortal or at least incapacitating wound. For instance, an arrow through the arm is painful, but a trained warrior can continue to fight (unless the arrow hits an artery). A stone from a sling to the arm will render the arm useless, and may incapacitate the warrior from the pain. This sort of wound will likely call for an amputation. The arrow wound is more likely to cause an infection, though, unless the bone fragments from the sling wound penetrate the skin. Also, an arrow is not going to penetrate armor or a shield, unless the arrow somehow hits a weak spot in the armor (point of overlap in the plates). A stone from a sling can penetrate nearly all types of armor, depending on whether or not it is a direct hit, and is known to go through shields. Furthermore, when an archer is out of arrows, he's out. His bow is essentially useless, unless he can somehow scavenge more. If a slinger runs out of prepared ammunition, he can always pick up a rock.
Another factor is the time period the mod is set in, Bows at this time were not nearly as effective as bows later developed. people seem to automatically think a bow should always beat a sling, but it all really depends on the type of bow as well as the training of the ranged units. Slingers are in fact a deadly unit but they are also a very weak unit in the same rights. They have practically no melee skill to speak of and can be crushed by the weakest of cavalry charges. A slinger is only as deadly as his opponent allows him to be, same as a cavalry with a very powerful charge is crazy powerful if you have no units to properly combat it.

To me 500+ men hurling bone breaking, armor piercing rocks at a tightly packed group of militia with very little armor should have the effect the game shows.

[DavidtheDuke]

This is a tough argument. I can see ppls point in saying the slingers should be lowered in pwr and rng, but when looking at actual RL statistics a Sling is a very deadly weapon, even when compared to a bow, so here is my argument for the slings having their current lethal dmg as opposed to bows.

The bow is generally more accurate, although a skilled slinger can have the accuracy of an archer. The sling has a longer range (generally) and more force per projectile. Both weapons cause terrific wounds, although the sling doesn't rely as much on accuracy to achieve a mortal or at least incapacitating wound. For instance, an arrow through the arm is painful, but a trained warrior can continue to fight (unless the arrow hits an artery). A stone from a sling to the arm will render the arm useless, and may incapacitate the warrior from the pain. This sort of wound will likely call for an amputation. The arrow wound is more likely to cause an infection, though, unless the bone fragments from the sling wound penetrate the skin. Also, an arrow is not going to penetrate armor or a shield, unless the arrow somehow hits a weak spot in the armor (point of overlap in the plates). A stone from a sling can penetrate nearly all types of armor, depending on whether or not it is a direct hit, and is known to go through shields. Furthermore, when an archer is out of arrows, he's out. His bow is essentially useless, unless he can somehow scavenge more. If a slinger runs out of prepared ammunition, he can always pick up a rock.
Another factor is the time period the mod is set in, Bows at this time were not nearly as effective as bows later developed. people seem to automatically think a bow should always beat a sling, but it all really depends on the type of bow as well as the training of the ranged units. Slingers are in fact a deadly unit but they are also a very weak unit in the same rights. They have practically no melee skill to speak of and can be crushed by the weakest of cavalry charges. A slinger is only as deadly as his opponent allows him to be, same as a cavalry with a very powerful charge is crazy powerful if you have no units to properly combat it.

To me 500+ men hurling bone breaking, armor piercing rocks at a tightly packed group of militia with very little armor should have the effect the game shows.

I think basically it should come to this: How well did they do in terms of history? I don't find them too bad myself, however I'm only playing hard on campaign, so I'm not seeing 50 stacks of them either.