What options should we have when managing client states?

[Lord Cornwallis]

Looking at CA’s interactive map it looks like client states will play a bigger role than vassals this time around, I’m just wondering what type of *options CA will give us to manage them?

*Options like annex, release from client state status, region conveyance, and coordinated military expeditions.

[Balthazzar The Merciless]

Ooh!! I'd like as much power as possible!!
We could choose whether to oppress our vassals or help them, we could raise tax demands and war demands! All this could increase the likelihood of the vassals rebelling against us.
Also, conversely, being nice to a vassal and increasing relations, and their economy could lead to annexation!!

Most of that is pipe dreaming though!!
The thing I really want of client states is that they grasp the concept of Fear; nothing more annoying than a shogun 2 vassal turning on you when it's disastrously outnumbered!! If it's going to turn on us, make the CAi do it when our empire is physically or economically weak!! If vassals are to rebel, I want CA to take inspiration from what They do, when playing as Athens to get out of Macedon's grasp! (Make alliances with maccy's enemies, look for weak spots etc.)

[Lord Dakier]

Problem is most peoples empires are always weak economically or militarily. Until you hit mid game when your nation is stable as you've upgraded quite a few things.

A vassal should have a checklist I think. Is the oppressor taxing heavy? is the oppressor taking powers away? is the oppressor forcing us to give military aid? is the oppresors upkeep weak? is the oppresors military far too busy elsewhere. If majority and definitely the last two are correct then yeah try and rebel.

I want to see options on how much tax and military aid you can force. I also want decisions that say how independent the nation is like whether or not they can start a war and how much they can expand there territory by or if at all. I'd also like the vassal to be able to request its indepence or the parent faction to offer it providing we agree to certain demands.

Personally I'd like to hardly tax my vassal and give them free reign to conquer elsewhere like Nobunaga did with Leyasu. Once they have conquered more then maybe they might want to go independant again

[scivian]

An answer to the OP in relation to my empire game: my vassal Spain stayed at war with the others, that shouldn't happen, their should be an immediate peace upon vassalation, then the other countries can declare war on me if desired. Also, Spain kept asking me to give it Portugal and Gibraltar, but they should never ask me anything except what they can do for me.

[Lord Dakier]

An answer to the OP in relation to my empire game: my vassal Spain stayed at war with the others, that shouldn't happen, their should be an immediate peace upon vassalation, then the other countries can declare war on me if desired. Also, Spain kept asking me to give it Portugal and Gibraltar, but they should never ask me anything except what they can do for me.

I disagree, they should be asking for their regions back and expect you to name a price. It's just annoying cause they do it every turn.

[Revan The Great]

I'm pretty skeptical about them. Seleucid vassals, particularly the far ones, should almost certainly have an easy time rebelling. But on the other hand, seeing Carthago Nova rebel against Carthage should be ridiculous. They're set up as, literally, a 'colonial' government for the mother city, and would have no basis to rebel and form an independent country along religious, ethnic, or any other lines.

I'm not sure I can see CA modeling this very well, but if they do it will be great.

[Lord Dakier]

I'm pretty skeptical about them. Seleucid vassals, particularly the far ones, should almost certainly have an easy time rebelling. But on the other hand, seeing Carthago Nova rebel against Carthage should be ridiculous. They're set up as, literally, a 'colonial' government for the mother city, and would have no basis to rebel and form an independent country along religious, ethnic, or any other lines.

I'm not sure I can see CA modeling this very well, but if they do it will be great.

Well vassals in general need work. I'd imagine you'd have the personality of factions working in the background. Nova Carthago in a Carthage no doubt should be loyal whereas the Seleucid vassal's many may well be more 'ambitious'.

[DogSoldierSPQR]

"Give me *quantity* of unit X" for 50% discount because I own you
In all seriousness though, purchasing troops off a Client state could be very helpful because they may have what you need. Since you own them, what's their's is yours and what's your's is none of their business
Say I'm the Romans, but I'm going to setup a campaign to raid Germania, if I have a Greek City State as one of my client states, some hoplite units would do wonders for me.

[MonTeZuma]

Like the idea of greater control of vassels, especially if you could govern taxes and troop deployment. Also they should always make peace with enemies who you are not at war with. Finally they should not rebel unless forced to, or are newly vassalated.( not sure that's a real word).

[Lord Cornwallis]

I mostly want them to be functional and a viable option to use that is a fun alternative to just conquering everything. Here are the features I think would make Client States a fun option:

Annexation

If I have had a client state for a long time with good relations there should be an option to annex their regions if their faction leader dies kind of like how Rome annexed the Kingdom of Pergamum in 129 BC.

Region Conveyance

Being able to transfer land to Client States should be an option for example if you are Rome and you help Pergamon capture the rest of the Asia province you should be able to transfer control of those regions to them so that your client state faction controls the entire province. It makes since if you don’t have any borders close to the province and really can’t support the region as well as your client state could with their armies that are already in the area.

Also what if your client state loses land to another faction, you should have the option to be able to restore that region back to them if you won the region back.

Release a Client State from Vassalship

Sometimes Client States grow and become unwieldy so it only makes since to be able to release a large faction from vasslship and downgrade the relationship to an alliance. Think of this as the opposite of annexing. If you keep a large faction as a Client State you should run the risk of them challenging your overlord status at some point. To keep this from happening you could convert them to an ally which would greatly improve diplomatic relations.

There have been some good points about client states having to ask permission to wage war, which was of the restraints put of Carthage when Rome made them a vassal and the pretext they used to destroy them.

[Bothocevil]

I think that the following management options are necessary :
- fix the level of diplomacy independance : the clent state can make alliance or not, start a war or not ...
- fix the level of taxes that the client state must pay,
- Ask troops and have the possibility to join theses troops to client state owner troops,
- The possibility to annex them, if the relations are good between them and their owner,
- The possibility to the client state revolt against their owner if for example the relations are not good or if the prestige of owner fall too low..